[1.04]Command squad and upgraded conscript Balance

[Joshua9]

I'm not a particularly good player, and I like to think that's mostly because I try really hard to use strats that nobody in their right mind would, like PE scout car start, Brit immediate truck move(no unit) wehr, t1 t2 blitz(no grens)...but it's probably also because I don't think very quickly on the fly, and cant' multitask all that well.

with those approaches I top out at about level 9 in regular games.  And so, I went about trying something new(maybe) with Russians, so far to very unusual success.  I realize I'm probably not playing amazing players, but I did play a few that clearly played better than me, and I still walked away with the win.  The idea is a slow-play of conscripts.(all testing done on langress for control)

It's a no barracks opening.  2 ingenery, 1 command squad, 2 more ingenery, (all this by the 2:30 mark which = about 1 volks 1 mg and 2 pios- command squad fireup available by about 2:34-making mg sector lockdown fairly obsolete)

I cap the map, focusing on munitions first.  I may build 2 more conscripts in this time.  As appropriate, I may stick some ingenery in buildings to preceed mg's, or else just to stall...stalling while holding most of the map is key.

At about the 4:00 to 4:30mark, I use my last built ingenery to build the upgrade building, then barracks, and then the support command(as fuel allows-should be getting close).  At the 4:24 mark the command squad can use artillery and the wehrmacht comparrison is about 2 volks 2 pios an mg and a bike(I think this is right, using high level replays as a guage)

As soon as is possible, I upgrade conscripts.  I do not start building any until the upgrade takes.  Then, having stored up manpower, I start pouring them out, 3 to 4 is good.  If there were no munitions delays, this should happen about the 6 to 6:30 point, wehrmacht may have added a sniper by this point, or another 2 units)

As soon as my munitions allow, I upgrade tank hunters.  (against a fast armored car it may be neccesary to build an at gun before this takes).  once the upgrade is done I dump out 3 to 4 tank hunters.  I use their mines liberally.

snipers at guns mortars are all as needed at this point. 
What the crux of this strat is, is that there seems to be nothing wehrmacht has to compete at this point with upgraded conscripts.  They not only break suppression, but they are 8 man squads that are hard to finish off by any means, and they have molitov cocktails.  Now everything I have fires up, bikes mg's snipers, even mp40 volks are going to have a very hard time just because of the speed and volume of my army.

Bear in mind, that I have probably easily won the capping war.  just at the point where wehr is supposed to be able to push back, I come out with these uber conscripts, and retake whatever dent he tried to make.  If he does have flamers or if he does have mp 40 volks, he wont have many, and if he has assault, he wont have many munitions to fuel it...beside, i just fire-up and escape the carnage.

It does appear that the fire-up doesn't sacrifice a squad as it is supposed to, and this should temper the power of the cconscripts when it finally works right, but my early game has been a relatively easy time. 

Better players than me have taxed my lack of understanding of late russian units, but usually by the 10 minute mark I still have 80 to 90 percent of the map.

If good players have tried similar openings I'd like their thoughts on whether or not it's viable at higher level of play.  If it is, I'd like their thoughts on whether its imbalanced. 

It seems to me like the crux of its power is the russians ability to survive at t-0 alone for at least 6 minutes, and not just survive but take control of most of the map.  This is mostly due to a very very powerful t-0 unit in the command squad. 

Its Too powerful I think.  I used to think it had too many hit-points , but there is no healing for it til later, so that is probably fine. Both the fire-up, and the artillery ability seem to come too soon though.  Perhaps They should require other buildings for unlocks.  I do appreciate other ways to open for russia, but between upgraded conscripts and command squads, there really is no disadvantage to not being able to retreat.  In-fact, their fire-ups are superior.  I feel like there's very little for me to have to worry about when I have 4 of those, 4 tank hunters  and my command squad running around. 

[BurroDiablo]

Version tag...

[Zerstörer]

Funnily enough a successful early WH strategy should include a bike/swimwagon. In fact they work better than regular MGs.  If you expect same strategies that you use vs US to work you're mistaken...try making new ones, that's the whole point.

Engies are still a bit stronger as it is, which is why they're getting nerfed a bit next patch by replacing regular mosin for conscript one.

Mid/late game will change alot after the next patch

[Joshua9]

good point about the bike, and I thought about that but then forgot to mention it.  I have not played somebody who has employed one early, exept once, and that may speak to the competition, if a bike start is the way to go

[Zerstörer]

Bikes/Swimm, flame pios, mp40s, mines all work like a treat...people are just too used to same tactics...time to innovate, change tactics and move on...not use the same established tactics you've always used...
That's when you get the bitching and complaining about soviets being OP...people fail to adjust and innovate..
'OMFG the MG42 doesn't work the same way it works for rifles'...then fucking adjust and change your tactis, don't complain and say change the balance to fit my same old tactics!...Its like the Stug...when first started everyone bitched about how OP its armour was...then after it was nerfed to fuck people realized you can just circle strafe the thing, bypass the front armour with anything and kill it, so ofcourse everyone then went..stug sucks dude!(This isn't aimed at you, its a general comment)

[Iglooman]

Bikes/Swimm, flame pios, mp40s, mines all work like a treat...people are just too used to same tactics...time to innovate, change tactics and move on...not use the same established tactics you've always used...
That's when you get the bitching and complaining about soviets being OP...people fail to adjust and innovate..
'OMFG the MG42 doesn't work the same way it works for rifles'...then fucking adjust and change your tactis, don't complain and say change the balance to fit my same old tactics!...Its like the Stug...when first started everyone bitched about how OP its armour was...then after it was nerfed to fuck people realized you can just circle strafe the thing, bypass the front armour with anything and kill it, so ofcourse everyone then went..stug sucks dude!(This isn't aimed at you, its a general comment)

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