For the Balance team, Fix game mechanics, not units. Plz read balance team.

[BlackMensa]

I really do believe that high res favours axis gameplay.

2 g43s or advanced tech is better. and the russians didn't get so  much more res right from the start.

[Zerstörer]

: Best Thing Ever : Foamy The Squirrel

Most soviet players still try 1.00 tactics...its going to take a while before you see them develop good/varied tactics/strats like the established factions. Also the ne wpatch will round things up a bit so balance should be in a good level to allow for more extensive games and indepth feedback.

Balance suggestions are great and we take them into  considerations as you see in the patches. but the whole 'redesign the faction to my vision' isn't gona happen guys...so stick to balance not design plz

[SquirrellyWrath]

I love Foamy.
The video says it all.

[maddog0002]

: Best Thing Ever : Foamy The Squirrel [nofollow]

Well thanks, just thanks for that mate, you really made my day......

Balance suggestions are great and we take them into  considerations as you see in the patches. but the whole 'redesign the faction to my vision' isn't gona happen guys...so stick to balance not design plz

This is not redesing, this is balance, if you dont want any help with your balancing, then dont make balance forums. And when someone takes the time to test the mod, come to the forums and post a large summary on how your mod could be better, based on the opinion of expert players and my own testing, how about not throwing it in their face.


The mod will not go far unless it follows the rules of the game, the british did not follow the rules of the game, and they are very much disliked......

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

The brits are disliked because they got dull units, useless doctrines and a too linear techtree.

The Russians are fun to play and are fun to face as enemies. No comparison to the British.

[Iglooman]

Well you say level 8 = noob. Listen, you can be beaten by lower levels than you; that can happen.

No you listen, lv8 is noob ok, simple as that, and I beat them too, what I'm saying is that I only just beat them, and I didn't mention that we had high resourses on, which is an extreamly axis favoured game setting, and even so, we were still losing the entire game untill I got out my first panthers, we only one because they got scared because of how many t34s they were losing, not realising that they probably would have won if they played on.

the game is globbaly balanced (maybe there are little things to buff or to nerf)  but still you can't win?! What do you want an easy win? Where is the fun?  I have actually played 3 game with wehr without the patch, I won the 3 games (it wasn't always easy) . Maybe my opponents were not always very good but anyway, I had fun.

Why the fuck would I want an easy win against everyone? I want a chalenging game against people of equivelt or better skill level, not against some noobs. Do you know anything about balance?
 the game is not globaly balanced.

What you are saying shows your level : "level 8 is noob". As I said maybe it was a smurf or maybe he is improving.  If we have this mentality it means that the level 8 will always be level as the level 20 will be always level 20....


Then you want challenge? Here is yours, try to find new strategies. As you say, panthers came and own everything so the strategy is to go for tanks and to support them with super invisble paks. Then you can tech bach to T3 and get nebels if he spams inf or just get ost.
In early game, cover your mgs by other mgs and pioflammers.

[SavageWorld]

The brits are disliked because they got dull units, useless doctrines and a too linear techtree.

The Russians has a very linear techtree too, but is overall a better faction, I would suggest that the Russian did not have such a linear techtree because that would make them more fun to play and to face as an enemy.

[Zerstörer]

This is not redesing, this is balance, if you dont want any help with your balancing, then dont make balance forums. And when someone takes the time to test the mod, come to the forums and post a large summary on how your mod could be better, based on the opinion of expert players and my own testing, how about not throwing it in their face.


The mod will not go far unless it follows the rules of the game, the british did not follow the rules of the game, and they are very much disliked......

Ok, I'll try and clarify this a bit more....
You're not the only 'good player' we have testing the mod(unless you consider yourself better than Kodachrome...or consider him a noob...along with many others). As such, using the 'I'm a higher level therefore I'm right' isn't really a good way to go about it.
What I also expect you to understand(which is where Foamy comes in), is that radical changes you think would suit your 'balance ideal' aren't necessarily correct.
There are a lot of people at your game level(some lower , some higher) who think differently and take everything into consideration.
If you're focusing on 're-design' to affect the balance, you're not really helping as much as you're going down different direction rather than try and balance what is already there.

And please, don't do the 'change it to what I think is best or else...'

Changes are considered and you shouldn't get hung up on 'things will only be right if they do it my way'

[jothmar3000]

I actually really agree with maddog0002 specifically about his point-

Fuel is for teching.
Munitions are for abilities.

I do not think following these guidelines for EF makes the soviets the "same" as all the rest other than the fact that it would be (as others have said before) following the same rules as the other factions. 


I don't understand why it is so necessary to the soviets to use munitions for teching...  It has no affect on strategy (making choices between one advantage or another, e.g. grenade or arty strike).  Whereas other factions have to tech completely from fuel and manpower while also having to save fuel and manpower to produce units, Soviets have a greatly OPed advantage in teching and production because they split the cost of teching and production.  Teching is munitions and fuel is production.  This adds to the advantage of being able to tech to tanks faster, because once you get there you have all remaining fuel during the rest of the game to build tanks.  Munitions cover the upgrades.

Developers, you made a deliniation between mechanics and balance.  This IS a game mechanic that affects balance.  It will always affect balance.  Why not make it a poll?  I believe it would be in the mod's best interest.  If players feel that munitions=tech/fuel=only production is unbalanced, they will cease playing.  Which nobody wants.  Maybe it is best to find out what the general consensus is?

Btw, I really appreciate the work done on this mod and give kudos to all the devolopers for working their a**es off and then listening to everyone critisize their work :]

[hgghg4]

Munis for teching is a radical idea that works... IF you give the player a choice.. do I save up for such and such upgrade or do I use the Arty Sniper strike....which will benefit me in the long run better? right now this is the only thing I really have a beef with the russians... once they have all the upgrades they want (I generally go for T34/85 upgrade, Red Banner Strelkys Sturmov Ingenerry, Shock Guards, Forward Spotters) then I don't really need much else.. I occasionally use the PTRD upgrade but it depends on the game

[ViserExciser]

Problem 2, Doctrines and XP points
The Russian doctrines allow you to have late game units, such as the Kitakyushu, much to early, and for not enough XP points and for not enough POP or MP, did you also take into consideration that since Russians are constantly losing men, that they will be getting lots of XP points, meaning Russians can unlock their command trees very fast, their conscripts in mass can devastate infantry squads like that in an OP way! meaning more XP, faster.

Solution 2
reevaluated the set up of some of the command trees, increase the XP points that are required to buy units like the Katusha or move it down a bit the doctrine ladder so it comes in much later on. Doctrine abilities like for the motherland and red tide now cost 50 munitions to use, just like for the fatherland, same goes for all other abilities like these ones.

problem 3, abilities and tecing
Free abilities? Just because Russian tecing costs are so munitions heavy does not mean you should give them free defensive artillery that can be used anywhere and be available from the first unit you build. First of all, tecing should not cost muni, it should cost fuel and MP, and abilities should cost muni, not nothing.

Solution 3
The command squads abilities cannot be used until the Armory has been built, and the arty strike now costs 125 munitions, charge and binoculars now cost 20 munitions each. Molotov's and all grenade like abilities must cost at least 20 munitions to use.

And like I said before, all the research that can be done in the armory must be changed so it costs Fuel and MP, as munitions is used for abilities, not research.


If this is implemented, then individual units won't need as much tweaking, this is the main reason why the Russians are so OP at the moment, I'm sure you aware but here is a list of every unit that is seriously OP.

OP Units

1.Mortar is not a mortar, but an extremely mobile artillery piece with no cool down that comes out after 5 mins, since its 120mm, it should do more damege than all the other mortars in the game, but right now its free 120mm arty.
2.The sniper is far too cheap, the price should be up'ed to 340mp like all other snipers.
3.Conscripts are simply to effective for their price, either Nerf their effectiveness so that 2 conscript squads can only just take out a grenadier squad (And once grens get vet, conscripts should not stand a chance). Or increase their price to 240mp, and increase their build time.
4.Conscripts capping speed must be reduced to .75
5.Igenerny capping speed should be 1.
6.Command squads and strelky squads should cap at 1
7.And gaurds should cap at 1.5
8.The t-70 and T-90 should cost 270mp and 30 fuel.
9. Russian super tanks should have a limmit of 1 at a time.
10. T34 should cost 400mp and 80 fuel.
11. The ISU needs a damege output nerf.
12. The katyusha neeeds to be a later game unit, and cost more MP.
13. Gaurds need to cost 375mp.
14. Strelky need to cost 280mp.
15. ISU, 1 time call in, 500mp.
16. Conscripts take up 5 pop cap, to prevent spamming.
17. the barracks needs to cost 200mp and 15 fuel, making it 100mp in the first place was just stupid and increases the chance for spamming of conscripts.
18. When the Russian HQ is destroyed, there is no ability to call in engins to repair it.
This is what is required for balance, not the nerfing of every unit.

Bugs
1. you can que up command squads, but only one will be finished.
2. Conscripts should show the amount of men they have left in their squad, ingerney also have this issue.
3. If Wher, PE, US or british capture a Russian weapon, then they cannot retreat.

aha laugh the Katusha sucks man? you need like 4 and they die extremely fast. Putting them down would ruin that branch. As for the Armory what the hell are you talking about up the mp cost and make a fuel cost? i wouldn't mind upping the mp to 150 to slow a weak ass conscript squad from coming out.

The real problem with the game our the fine tune details.

Like how if you lose your barracks when you are currently producing a tank it won't come out. Or if one of your snipers is currently in camouflaged state, and the partner gets killed when you reinforce him he is not camouflaged while you are and one of you is always camouflaged one of you is not i hate that one specifically
Post Merge: January 29, 2010, 12:56:49 AM[qoute/]
OP Units

1.Mortar is not a mortar, but an extremely mobile artillery piece with no cool down that comes out after 5 mins, since its 120mm, it should do more damege than all the other mortars in the game, but right now its free 120mm arty.
2.The sniper is far too cheap, the price should be up'ed to 340mp like all other snipers.
3.Conscripts are simply to effective for their price, either Nerf their effectiveness so that 2 conscript squads can only just take out a grenadier squad (And once grens get vet, conscripts should not stand a chance). Or increase their price to 240mp, and increase their build time.
4.Conscripts capping speed must be reduced to .75
5.Igenerny capping speed should be 1.
6.Command squads and strelky squads should cap at 1
7.And gaurds should cap at 1.5
8.The t-70 and T-90 should cost 270mp and 30 fuel.
9. Russian super tanks should have a limmit of 1 at a time.
10. T34 should cost 400mp and 80 fuel.
11. The ISU needs a damege output nerf.
12. The katyusha neeeds to be a later game unit, and cost more MP.
13. Gaurds need to cost 375mp.
14. Strelky need to cost 280mp.
15. ISU, 1 time call in, 500mp.
16. Conscripts take up 5 pop cap, to prevent spamming.
17. the barracks needs to cost 200mp and 15 fuel, making it 100mp in the first place was just stupid and increases the chance for spamming of conscripts.
18. When the Russian HQ is destroyed, there is no ability to call in engins to repair it.
This is what is required for balance, not the nerfing of every unit.

Bugs
1. you can que up command squads, but only one will be finished.
2. Conscripts should show the amount of men they have left in their squad, ingerney also have this issue.
3. If Wher, PE, US or british capture a Russian weapon, then they cannot retreat.
[/quote]

your supposed to spam the damn conscripts its how there played anyone actually CoH player would know how to retaliate to a spam as it does nothing. up mp cost of guards and strelky? are you kidding me they get killed to easily plus they can't retreat Stelky can't even break suppression. without a captain squad around. they have sprint which is helpful when running. Why nerf there tanks there good ones shoot slower than a mountain moving! a panzer can get 5 shots in before it takes its crazy kill blow. Keep as it is. t34 is a useless tank if put against a pak and a player who knows what he is doing can rape a t34 plain and simple they aren't that good. There already slow cappers it takes about 30 seconds to cap a strategic point !! Conscripts why do you hate them they suck period even with teh upgrade most of the time. it takes to two to kill a gren squad. they need ot be supported by a captain squad. Snipers should stay the same snipers are completely fine i only wish you could see heir bullet stream because it is a hell of a lot harder to find them. The mortar is completely fine they need some sort of range power from behind and the mortar takes the cake plus it has a high pop cap i presume with 5 people.

[maddog0002]

Good luck balancing this mod guys, i'm sure with some more suggestions from ViserExciser, that it will be done in no time....

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Good luck balancing this mod guys, i'm sure with some more suggestions from ViserExciser, that it will be done in no time....

How 'bout some cheese to your whine?

[ThreeAngryInches]

the "our way is the best" argument is really silly dont you think and also FULL of hypocrisy. 

Also, congrats on mentioning one CoH expert that nobody has heard anything about in forever. (im sure he's still very good though)

You're arguing against redesign of your faction and don't you developers think it's odd that almost everyone has come up with the same solutions to many of the SU factions problems?  Do you guys think we all some how collaborated against you....No, we all have merely seen what works and doesn't work with your faction design and used our brains and a bit of theorycrafting to come up with something that works.

 

[hgghg4]

I like your sarcasm maddog and ThreeAngry, you never heard of Kodachrome?  You just fail... He is a nice guy though... rather level headed and doesn't make a complete ass out of himself when he speaks...