1vs1 in VP small map

[wurmer]

I need some help here folks,

Lately I've been trying to play VP 1vs1 playing the Russians.  resources are normal and I play against an expert computer on a small map (Prague).  I am not an expert player but I know pretty much the basics and I've often played annihilation game in the past vs expert computers and lost my good share of games but also won quite a few in the end, I am persistent.

Thing here is, I get completely destroyed in this kind of map. My infantry gets owned badly by the volks, I am usually a defencive player but this strategy doesn't seem to suit the Russian troops well. I tried to overpower the Germans at the start of the game but one or two squads of volks will own like 2 or 3 times that number of conscripts especially tf the got the MG upgrade. If am lucky and can counter the German infantry up to a certain degree than I am toasted when the get thank within 10 minutes in the games.  Any hints here would be appreciated...

[wordsmith]

Despite the AI is somewhat improved in EF mod (good work btw) you still have chance to beat even expert CPU. It just requires to spam engineers from start and secure the points with barbwire. And that's about all

I will attach a replay to show how it works, it is in .zip because .rec format could not be attached and on gamereplays.org there is forbidden to post replays vs CPU.

EDIT: this replay works only with [1.04] version of EF, it doesn't work with [1.10] or [1.11]. I will remove it.

[Paciat]

AI in EF gets extra resouces (+100% or more)
That also means he will tech-up faster.

There is hope if you build some trenches and place AT guns and mortars behind them so that they wont get artied when AI bombards youre trenches.

If AI uses a granade, jump to another trench.

Use AT rifles becouse their cheap.

Advance slowly.


It only works at annihilation games becouse AI caps too quickly while trench tactic takes time.

[wordsmith]

AI in EF gets extra resouces (+100% or more)
That also means he will tech-up faster.

You mean +100% more that in regular CoH? I didn't know that... what I meant with improved AI is that it behaves somewhate better, like waiting gathering troops and coming in groups together or guarding some important map places... I didn't notice such behaviour in original CoH but maybe I'm wrong, maybe I just didn't notice that before.

Of course I knew the fact that AI has improved resource income and better unit combat values.

[wurmer]

I have tied the trenches tactic I can hold them back a while then all of the sudden tanks appear in great number.  Obviously, CPU gets extra resources that it doesn't need to gather on the map otherwise it would be impossible to get enough to built as fast as it does.  In one game that I played (king of the hill) I was playing the Germans with 3 other CPU against 4 expert CPU : 2 Russians, 1 USA and 1 Britz.  I was winning the game and happened to be almost in the enemy base.  I could see the Britz CPU spamming its command truck at an interval of like 15 seconds and Priest artillery at about the same rate if not faster so that my explain a few things
Post Merge: April 19, 2010, 01:03:43 PMHow can I read the sequence you've posted ?

[wordsmith]

How can I read the sequence you've posted ?

Unpack it and save into folder:

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Games\Company of Heroes\playback\

Then start a game - EF, choose Multiplayer and there it should be in "Game history" tab - next to "Play" tab which is selected when you start Multiplayer. Choose the replay, press Load game in bottom right corner and enjoy watching

[wurmer]

 Thanks for that very educative piece of video.  I tried it and it worked up to a degree but it seems more suited for very small map. Anyways, I'll put that in my bag of tricks.  I probably don't have the skills yet to take on an expert or hard CPU on a VP style of game.  I am realizing that it takes quite a bit more skills in micro management that an annihilation game.

[wordsmith]

You're welcome playing PC is so different from playing humans, in some way harder but in some way much easier lol what you can train very good is micro, because PC is insane micro sensitive, naturally. But if you want to practice tactics or strategy humans are faaar more better opponents.

Simple said - with PC you learn how to quickly click and operate more units at one time = you improve hand controlling, but with humans you need to think and also imagine what your opponent thinks = improve your brain.

And btw: I always considered Annihilation matches to be tougher than VP... maybe because playing VPs you just concentrate to quick tech to some weapons which could be harder to counter for your opponent and which he eventually counter if he had time, but since VP clock is ticking he has not that time and you could just focus on 2 Vict.points and defend those, you don't have to take overall map control and destroy opponent's base.

[Paciat]

AI in EF gets extra resouces (+100% or more)
That also means he will tech-up faster.

You mean +100% more that in regular CoH? I didn't know that... what I meant with improved AI is that it behaves somewhate better,

If you look at a AI replay youll see that resources stats are almost the same as yours but AI gains MP like crazy. Fuel and ammo income is faster too.

Threre were some AI changes.

like waiting gathering troops and coming in groups together or guarding some important map places...

AI just bloobs up with random units becouse its easy to blob up with all these resources. You attack the blob and theres usually that 1 or 2 units that can counter youre attack.

Thats why AI seems to be better and thats why AI can be destroyed with Nebels while his forming up his bloobs.

Anyway, its good that AI differes in EF from that in normal COH. Allways something new. 
Also, creating AI that is as smarter than a random 5lvl player is probably imposible (too dificult).

[wordsmith]

AI just bloobs up with random units becouse its easy to blob up with all these resources. You attack the blob and theres usually that 1 or 2 units that can counter youre attack.

Thats why AI seems to be better and thats why AI can be destroyed with Nebels while his forming up his bloobs.

Anyway, its good that AI differes in EF from that in normal COH. Allways something new. 
Also, creating AI that is as smarter than a random 5lvl player is probably imposible (too dificult).

Yes and that is how human player do it too, blobing various units to counter to widest possible threats, isn't it?

It just respects the scissor-paper-rock rule and make mix of units. Of course that it is easier with so many resources not to mention this insane micro with MGs, At guns or Armors. On the other hand AI eats booby traps everytime or just send Katyushas to your base to park in front of ur HQ or as I show in my replay - even Expert PC is confused of simple barbwire lol

[wurmer]

Well, It seems that I am not too competent while using the Russian Troops  nor the Americans for that matter. I was finally able to win the Prague map using the the Brits in normal difficulty.  It's probably because their tech up trees are more suited to my style of play.  It's rather "easy" to counter the horde of German Tanks using the 17' pounder gun.  When you support them with trenches and mortar emplacements, they can become quite a pita, at least for computers.  I am not convinced that it would work as well vs human players.

[Tico_1990]

Wurmer, if you start building sim city, the most likely thing to occur would be that your human opponent builds some arty and bombards you to a million pieces.
This can be countered to a certain extent by not building your defences to close to each other.
In the ideal case, you are able to isolate yourself using no defences what so ever (in other words, play on a map like Achelous river). If you are able to keep those bridges closed (in other words, destroyed), than you can just build up a large strike force, or a large artillery platform and bomb the crap out of your enemy.
Another tactic that I find to be very effective is, if you play 2v2 (with a human ally), that one of you concentrates solely on defence, while the other concentrates solely on offence.