is2 too expensive and comes out too late

[Andreas]

How does a 3xDefensive vet PE panther match up against the IS-2?

It will have super speed (7.9 m/s), be harder to hit by 19% and have 19% damage reduction - a fearsome opponent!

http://companyofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Panther_(Panzer_Elite)

And ofc: a whopping 940 HP!

[Cranialwizard]

How does a 3xDefensive vet PE panther match up against the IS-2?

It will have super speed (7.9 m/s), be harder to hit by 19% and have 19% damage reduction - a fearsome opponent!

http://companyofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Panther_(Panzer_Elite)

And ofc: a whopping 940 HP!

Vet 3 Panther should beat a Vet 0 IS-2. (In 1.6) Because a IS-2 has not very good accuracy at long range, if your micro is good, and you keep distance, you should be able to swing around the IS-2 because of it's bad turret turn rate and hit him where it hurts.

Offensive vet might help you penetrate better but it's a gamble.

[Andreas]

But what about Vet3 panther vs Vet3 IS-2?

 I imagine the panther cirklestrafing the IS-2, and generally being able to either escape or chase it

[SnappingTurtle]

You can assist the turret rotation of a tank by also turning the tank.

[stealthattack1]

i dont think we can account for bad/good micro, but i tihnk on the vet 3 level, is2 will win.

[Cranialwizard]

Vet 1 IS-2 will beat a Vet 3 Panther

[bopokippo]

hey just wondering, what is the penetration rating of pak 38s vs the frontal armor of IS-2s? Also, at one point in a game a few days ago, I had my IS-2 facing a pak frontally. There were 3 others paks behind it (somewhat far, maybe half a screen) and it might have just been a coincidence between firing times of one pak, deflections, and firing times of paks behind (which I'm not sure were even firing) but it seemed that when a shot was deflected, it still did some decent damage. I assume this is just PAKs penetrating but actually if so they penetrated very often and I'm sure they were all hitting my front. Maybe ONE pak was hitting a corner of the side. What are the armor strength (in terms of deflection) for the IS-2 per side?

[Pac-Fish]

When shots deflect they still do damage. But you say "decent damage" so im assuming that it still took a good chunk of your heatlh out, regardless . If so maybe thats a statistical problem that needs to be looked into . Paks are suppose to damage IS-2s but not that well . You need a few Paks, or a tank and a pak

[Chancellor]

On paper, IS2 > Panther.  In-game, its still usually a very close 50-50 toss-up most of the time, even if the IS2 is vet 3.  These theories about Panther vs IS2 1v1 battles or circle-strafing the IS-2 are ridiculous.

You will rarely have a 1v1 tank engagement.  99% of the time, the tanks will have support, and Axis can usually support their tanks better than Allies can, which is probably why Panther vs IS2 engagements are a toss-up instead of a clear IS2 victory.

Also, even if it really boils down to a 1v1 tank fight, you will never be able to completely circle-strafe any tank with a turret if the other fucker knows what he's doing.  Yes, the turret on tanks like the KT and IS2 turn fucking slow, but if the prick you're facing is good, he'll Michael Wittmann your ass by turning the tank direction WITH the turret at the same time, which lets the cannon catch up with your circle-strafing tank.

Finally, I kinda do think that the IS2 does have a bit too many requirements to unlock.  It already costs a ton of resources to build one, and I think it places undue burden on the Soviets to unlock building upgrades they won't use just to be able to build a certain tank, while the Wehrmacht can build a comparably powerful Panther with much less red tape.  Its kind of like Panther Battlegroup, which also has a fuckton of requirements, but its not half as good.  If the resources required for all the IS2 prerequisites are equal or only a bit higher than the resources for Wehrmacht to tech to T4 (Tank Hall and Panzer Command costs included), then I'm wrong about this.

[GodlikeDennis]

Pak 38 penetration vs IS-2:

0.3825/0.405/0.5625

This is exactly the same as against a Pershing but IS-2s actually have more health and will last longer. I don't know why you think an IS-2 would be able to take on 3 Paks. Paks have 0.5 deflection damage, so even when they fail to penetrate, their damage only drops by 50%. Compare this to a Panzer 4 for example that will deal 85% less damage if it fails to penetrate.

IS-2 prerequisite cost:
35+35+55+55+80 = 260

Wehr Panther (assuming T2-T4):
35+25+50+50+50 = 210

PBG requirement:
25+35+30+40+30+60+20 = 240

The IS-2 cost is only a little higher than the others and it is easy to assume the Wehr player will get tank vet1 which closes the gap by a further 30FU. All 3 of these options allow almost every unit to be buildable.

[Pac-Fish]

Wher has Shreck, PaK, and smaller tank support (like a StuG or a Panzer). SU has TH, ZiS, and smaller tanks (T-34 or KV). So I kinda agree, Wher has better AT support to complement a semi weaker Panther. And quite honestly I have yet to see a lone panther fight a lone IS-2  . So I kinda agree with Yauz

[SnappingTurtle]

Consider that the Wehrmacht player has to go out of his way to get a panther whereas the Soviets will have some of the upgrades required to get an IS-2 already, and its army gets free vet.