newbie question

[maddogb]

sorry for asking what is probably listed but being a newbie was unsure of search terms.

1. Is there a list some where of all unit costs, manpower toll and upkeep rates?

[Blackbishop]

You can check this site:

http://picly.us/coh/

Or our Wiki:

http://easternfront.org/wiki/index.php?title=Statistics

[maddogb]

cheers m8, not sure if i am reading it right though, is it correct the jagpanther only uses 20 points manpower upkeep?, seems excessively low.
reason i am asking is twice now i have been knocking at my m8s base only to have him produce a couple or more panthers and come right back and flatten my base whilst having possession of very few strategic points, getting me very irritated.
the last one he managed to get the tiger or jagp on the field, fair enough, but then with less than 40% of the map under his control his manpower income was still comparatively high and having few units whilst i had more lowering my income was unable to counter the panthers

[Seeme]

20 MP! Thats really low.

[GodlikeDennis]

None of the factions really have much upkeep except Americans. Research the supply yard upgrades (which also let your riflemen vet faster).

[maddogb]

as i said from a newbie perspective so im struggling to understand the concept of why the strategy points mean so little in terms of overall income.
less than 30% on the whole map which appears to be swallowed by the upkeep in manpower points anyway.
the first time this happened i had completely cut the guy off on a 4 player map with just the two of us playing, he managed to defend his base with a couple of panthers and saved up enough four two more coming out destroying my nearby forces and rushing straight to my base wiping it out.
despite my ownership of the map and his low manpower income on the clock(+220) he was able to build up enough credits to buy two battlegroups whilst i struggled to produce any further units with my income.
Is there some sort of handicapping code in the game engine?

[GodlikeDennis]

Strategic points are just that, strategic. They hold very little actual resource value in holding them but are usually cutoff points, connecting all your other points to your base. Unlike other games, it is an important game aspect to cut an enemy off from his resources by capturing his back points.

Upkeep is in the game to facilitate comebacks. If the losing player has a greater income he can rebuild his lost units faster. This leads to closer, more intense and fun games. It also punishes players who are winning, have greater forces but just sit back and expect the win. You should still be playing as the VPs count down.

Panther battlegroup is the best value for money in the game, hands down. However, it takes a ridiculous amount of teching to get to. Try cutting off his fuel earlier.

It's good that you're trying to get into the game with stats in mind but just to warn you, CoH has an extremely complex combat system and the stats might not make sense to you. It may be best just to play a hell of a lot of games until you get the feel of the game and look up stats for something specific, like vet bonuses or something.

[maddogb]

cheers dennis, yup panthers are certainly good value, but the tech'ing to get them can be achievable quite quickly, certainly in under an hour.
in the last game i was at his fule points quite quickly and kept him deprived all the way thru
I think next time i shall hold back a bit until i can counter a tiger/jagpanther and a pbg but it makes the game a bit long winded and there really should be a surrender button, i for one would use it an awful lot
any ideas on how to have a quick(>90mins) game.

[Paciat]

None of the factions really have much upkeep except Americans. Research the supply yard upgrades (which also let your riflemen vet faster).

Ill also add that calling up the Jagdpanter or Kingtiger or using resource blitz (that noone uses anyway) loweres youre MP income for some time (3 minutes or so) by 1/2.

The most upkeep expensive US troops are:
Pershing 27
105mm Howitzer 21
Airborne/Rangers 17
Rifleman 14
Sherman/Croc/Calliope 13
Those costs can be lowered to ~75% after building Supply center (so Sherman upkeep is allways lower than 13), to ~50% after 1st SC upgrade, 25% (lower than any other fraction) after 2nd upgrade.
Infantry commanders need fuel allmost as much as tank commanders do to get supply yard upgrades. US infantry is also very expensive to reinforce (comparing to build costs). UK infantry on the other hand is expensive but cheap to upkeep and reinforce.

[Analpirat]

any ideas on how to have a quick(>90mins) game.

Assuming you mean <90mins, then yes: Don't play Annihilate, don't play high resources, don't play chokepoint maps. Even 1000pts VP Control shouldn't last that long, but 500pts, which is the standard CoH is balanced to, won't last you longer than 45min with 90% probability.
Play 1vs1 Automatch and you're most likely done in 25min tops.

[GodlikeDennis]

cheers dennis, yup panthers are certainly good value, but the tech'ing to get them can be achievable quite quickly, certainly in under an hour.
...

An hour is an EXTREMELY long time in this game. It isn't supreme commander. I can get PBG in 15min in a 1v1 automatch. However, doing so leaves you vulnerable to his other forces since you will have less field prescence. As others have said, more enjoyable games can be had with VPs, standard resources and good maps. You should try a few.