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1

Ostheer Suggestions / Re: Summary of the Ostheer sneaks [WIP]

« on: November 02, 2011, 04:33:11 PM »

I've also got a few questions about the doctrines. How is improved communications going to be in anyway useful? To be honest I rarely see forward HQs. On top of that is it really worth a 4 CP wait?

Why would a player need a Wespe if Panzerwefers are permanently available?

What is the difference between fortress troops and elite troops?
Actually a better question, What are fortress troops?
To be honest I think the Doctrine names were chosen quite poorly and  it is very hard to tell from the names what the doctrines are about.

2

Ostheer Suggestions / Re: Summary of the Ostheer sneaks [WIP]

« on: November 01, 2011, 06:08:02 PM »

As far as I know, the MG-34 is only available if you choose certain pool. Meaning that Ostheer won't be able to use this unit all the time.
What difference does this make?

Besides the Flak can inflict more damage to light vehicles. Don't know what you expect comparing it with a MG-34 at all, let alone with the Troop Halftrack. Do you really think the HT mounted MG would be better than the tripod version?
When in my post did I ever compare the halftrack MG to the tripod MG?
You are talking as if a flak would going to be the same as the mg, and how that can be possible, being both used in different ways? Both were used versus infantry, I agree, but that has nothing to do with the function of each one.
Would you like to elaborate on how their functions are different?
About we proving it isn't totally worthless, that question is out of place, the only way it will be proved is on a match.

Then again, other than that, comparing a Tier 1 MG-34 with a Flak 38 T2 being the first optional and the second one "always" available is quite pointless. Remember why the pool system has been implemented.I don't see how one being more available than another makes much of a difference, I just means I have to wait an extra minute for my MG.

EDIT: I forgot to address one thing you might confused... In order to upgrade your Halftrack with the flak 38 you will need to purchase modernization for that building. Meaning that you won't be able to deploy towed flaks anymore.
Ah, now it makes more sense. So what you're basically telling me is that the whole building becomes modernised, I thought their were separate modernisation upgrades for each unit. That completely eliminates my problem with the halftrack and Flak 38.

Post Merge: November 01, 2011, 06:16:07 PM

I read this,

The MG has a far greater survivability, primarily because it can retreat and the flak cannot.

and mistook it as you saying the flak couldn't move at all.

Anyway, as for a niche it can fill that neither the MG or HT can... OH at this time lacks a mortar, real sniper or early flamer. For early anti-building they will have to rely on grenades from landsers. Perhaps we can make this flak 38 effective against units in cover/garrisons? It might also be a little capable against early light vehicles like an M8 or T70. Perhaps it will even be decent against MG nests and brit emplacements?

In any case, it's too early to say. Once the balance team gets to actually use it, we will find a use for it.

+1

Now you're talking. One difference like that that gives it a noticeable edge over the MG and its perfect.
Post Merge: November 01, 2011, 06:21:47 PM

OH at this time lacks a mortar, real sniper ........

That's interesting I thought the 75mm infantry support gun and marksman filled those roles. How do they work then?

3

Ostheer Suggestions / Re: Summary of the Ostheer sneaks [WIP]

« on: November 01, 2011, 04:52:52 PM »

When did I say the Flak 38 couldn't move?. Oh that's right I didn't. Either that or I gave you the wrong impression in my post. Anyway I'm fully aware it can move. I'm making the point that the Troop half-track will have far greater mobility.

Besides, I'm just making the point that when balancing it you will have to make sure that the MG is substantially inferior to the flak 38, or it will beg the question why bother with the flak 38. You will also have to create a big enough gab between the the troop half-track and the flak 38 so the flak 38 doesn't become outclassed immediately. That or just change the troop half-track upgrade. I'll be interested to see what you do with it either way.

However I'm still not convinced that putting the Flak 38 in the MGs place is a poor choice of action. I'm actually quite shocked that it wasn't put there in the first place rather the wehrmacht MG.It would make the early game for the Ostheer far more interesting.

And ghost, I think you misread my post. I know that the halftrack part of the heavy assault pool, infact I noted it in my post. The paragraph where I mentioned different upgrades for the halftrack IF it was neutral was just hypothetical (Note my use of the word "IF").

4

Ostheer Suggestions / Re: Summary of the Ostheer sneaks [WIP]

« on: November 01, 2011, 03:20:43 PM »

Hello EF community,
I have a concern which I would like the EF community to address. What is the point of the FlaK 38? I phrased that poorly because I know its purpose is a support weapon that is lethal towards infantry but in my opinion the Unit is mostly redundant because of other units available. Let me explain:
First of all I will compare it to the MG34 which is also a support weapon that is lethal towards infantry. Both are direct infantry killers rather than indirect infantry killers such as mortars and are used to deal with large numbers of infantry units unlike snipers. On paper the MG will have far greater suppression capabilities than the flak but the flak will cause greater damage. They are both vulnerable to snipers, three shots per unit, and are both equally vulnerable to mortars, tanks and armoured cars. However this is where the list of similarities between the two units ends. The MG has a far greater survivability, primarily because it can retreat and the flak cannot. This means the flak will be more likely to be captured and used against you and I assume the flak will cost more and take up more population than the MG. The major difference between them is the fact that the flak is a tier 2 unit. This is far too late for a unit that can be so easily compared to the MG and will not be as useful in my opinion.
Next I will compare it to the upgraded troop halftrack. Both use a Flak 38 20mm cannon which is lethal towards infantry. Although the Flak 38 does not cost fuel or require a certain pool it is inferior in nearly every way to the troop halftrack. The upgraded troop halftrack is invulnerable to snipers, mortars and infantry. On top of that it is far more mobile, can reinforce your infantry and can micro enemy infantry, the flak can do none of these things. In short it would be far more profitable to wait for a troop halftrack than a flak 38.
I see no reason to choose the flak 38 over either of these units and as a result I deem it quite pointless. If the DEVs can challenge me on this claim and prove that it isn’t totally useless than that’s fine but if I’m right this is the solution I propose. Put the Flak 38 in the MG34s place and get rid of the MG entirely. As I have already proved the MG and the flak have very similar uses and properties so the flak would not be out of place. On top of that the flak is unique and the MG is not. Finding a unit to put in the Flak 38s original place would not be hard; the Panzer IB, the SDKFZ 10/5 or the SDKFZ 232 can all be succeeded by the Panzer II.
On top of this the upgrade for the troop halftrack should be changed. If the troop halftrack was a neutral unit you could have two separate upgrades that would be unlocked separately after you research each pool. For example if you research the Heavy assault pool a 75 mm L/24 low velocity gun upgrade can become available or if you research the Heavy support pool a Pak 36/40 upgrade becomes available. The 75mm L/24 upgrade would give the halftrack a cannon similar to the Panzer Elites Panzer IV cannon and the Pak 36/40 upgrade would give the halftrack an AT gun, which would either be a Pak 36 or a Pak 40 depending on whether or not the modernisation upgrade has been purchased.
I understand the idea of changing some units in the faction when it is a few months from release is repulsive but all I ask is for you to consider it.