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Messages - Olorin
Pages: [1]
1
« on: January 30, 2012, 03:33:37 PM »
+1 I wanna laugh but at the same time Im only laughing cause its sad and true  .
Did jeeps actually have recoiless rifles btw? I've yet to see a real life jeep with recoiless rifles
No idea about the Jeeps.. it seems rather unconventional, but I can see it. Relic can make some pretty revolutionary games. Company of Heroes was their best in my opinion. It's radical take on the open and environmentally focused battlefields reenergized a normally stagnant genre. One thing that is problematic about it is that it rewards people with a very aggressive play style, which isn't a bad thing by itself, but it alienates some players that are new, or just prefer(like myself) a more conservative, defensive(not necessarily turtling) oriented play style. Dawn of War was similar in this regard, and Relic tried answering this problem with the Imperial Guard. I'm not sure if any of you have played that game as well, but the execution of the Imperial Guard was even more flawed than how Relic has done the British. It's not a bad idea to have this option in theory, but Relic completely fucked up. Having a defensive faction shouldn't necessarily equate to being able to set up a nearly impenetrable layer of defense, which can just be frustrating. The vanilla Brits were rather OP in that regard, but in other fields they were just terrible, or had flawed execution. Their unit roster seems incomplete. The concept behind the British was that they should be able to slowly expand and hold what they have while building up an armored force to crush the enemy, but in practice it doesn't work well. The Cromwell just sucked going toe to toe against Wehrmacht higher tier vehicles, and the Firefly really is more of a support vehicle. The Comet fills a niche that the vanilla Brits REALLY needed filled. So OP defenses, poor offensive line up, and messed up mechanics result in just a broken faction in general. I'm glad that the EF team has decided to make an option for people who prefer a less dysfunctional Brit faction; it's just a damn shame we're stuck with the doctrines. Don't even let me get started on those.
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« on: January 30, 2012, 03:20:34 AM »
Boys AT rifle! I have always felt that is one of the main things missing from the British. Some sort of alternative to the PIAT. Now the PIAT isn't terrible, but I often find it can really only be used to full effect when used defensively. It would probably most appropriately be an upgrade for the Tommy squad. I believe the assets for it including the model, texture, sound and animation were already in Tales of Valor. Strange relic never included it beyond an extremely minor appearance in the Tiger Ace campaign, but then again they seem to have given up on making the British into a fully featured, functional, and balanced faction. I look forward to hearing more about the RMC in 1.7, but a topic about the OP SAS jeeps probably isn't the place for it. I wouldn't mind seeing a Bren Gun Carrier with a Boys Rifle in it as a mobile Vehi Hunter, make it a variable upgrade to the MMG upgrade, one or the other.
The Royal Marines already have the recoilless rifle jeeps to fill this role.
3
« on: January 29, 2012, 05:48:17 AM »
You don't like the comet?
Oh, I like the Comet well enough, it just performs a different role. The Comet seems to be more of a general purpose tank, a buffed Cromwell if you will, whereas the Firefly is a decent tank killer. Now with the Royal Marines, the M10 Achilles fills that role well, but Firefly seems to be quite a bit harder to destroy in comparison. If you're using tank destroyers right, they shouldn't come under much fire, but on the bigger maps it seems inevitable it will get a few nicks. Now I don't know the specific stats of the Achilles, but it seems like the Firefly is roughly twice as difficult to destroy. If I could pick between the Cromwell, Comet, Achilles, and Firefly all in one round it would be pretty awesome. They all fill different niches in my opinion, but there is always the vanilla brits to fall back on if you really miss it, which is what I do sometimes.
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« on: January 27, 2012, 05:38:12 PM »
I'd have to echo Cranialwizard. I've played as the RMC extensively, and I've never noticed a problem with their accuracy. What seems to be the problem with them is actually that their penetration is much higher than it should be.
Glad to hear the RMC is going to be tweaked a bit more. I really enjoy playing them as opposed to the vCoH Brits, and probably would play as them consistently if I didn't have to give up my Sherman Firefly.
5
« on: April 29, 2010, 01:42:29 PM »
It was a desperate attempt to turn the course of the war.
There you go! Now you're catching on. This is precisely what one of the doctrines, or last tier of the faction should represent, should the idea that the Ostheer along with the soviets should progress in a roughly chronological manner. Even in Relic's faction, the Panzer Elite, you see Scorched Earth Tactics represented as a doctrine, but for the time frame that is covering it wasn't really that great of a choice, and it is the worst doctrine of any faction, in my opinion. Anyway, that was the general idea, that they would represent the later stage and a desperate attempt to hold the line. Although I would disagree with you that "it was useless to send them against tanks" there were surpluses of panzerfausts, to the degree that men would sometimes be given one instead of a rifle, and indeed, I forget the specific unit but one unit had staved off a Soviet Armored division in the siege of Berlin. Given the circumstances, that's pretty impressive. And as interesting as your anecdote is, I don't see how it is really relevant at all. Unsupported infantry, regardless of quality, will be mowed down by strafing runs. I had some further ideas for the actual implementation of the unit, but that goes beyond the scope of the unit in context of combat.
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« on: April 28, 2010, 05:56:14 PM »
Ah, my apologies.
I've never actually used the Tank Guards before, but I'm glad to hear that it's in. I just discovered the mod a week or two ago, and haven't seen all the doctrine units yet.
The addition of the gun to the command squad should make them much more viable in the long run. As it is now, I usually just let them die since I can usually get more use out of using the pop cap on another squad.
7
« on: April 28, 2010, 05:18:40 PM »
I am aware they were not used until the Soviets had entirely pushed the Germans out of Russia, but it seems that one of the generally accepted ideas for the Ostheer is that they should reflect how the war changed from the Germans initially pressing deep into Soviet territory, to the stalemate, and their eventual continual losses.
The idea for the Volkssturm is that they would be an option into the latter part. While what you say is true to some degree, it is not representative of the Volkssturm as a whole.
Indeed, many of them were actually World War 1 veterans, whose experience would serve them well...
The quality of the troops varied, but it follows a kind of scheme. The Volkssturm were classified into four different levies.
Levy 1 was the classification for troops that had been raised some weeks in advance, and had been given a degree of training. These troops were intended to brought along on campaigns.
The troops I have outlined would be Levy 1. The ones you seem to be referring to would be levy 3 or 4.
Yet despite them being 'slaughtered in droves' as you put it, the Soviets consistently suffered greater casualties than would be expected.
There are a few key things that separate them from the soviet conscripts.
1. Experience(taking into account world war 1 veterans, who while didn't make up the bulk of these troops, it's enough to take into consideration.
2. Generally better equipment(Unless you are talking about the very, very end like March/April 1945)
3. Consequences for losing - They probably would just be murdered by the Soviet troops if they were captured, and it's worth saying that the Soviets were generally more merciful towards the Volkssturm than regular uniformed men. Their homes would be looted and pillaged, and their wives and daughters raped.
I don't say this to be picking on the Russians either, as point #3 was true for the Soviet Troops in the initial stage of the war, but by the time the Volkssturm come into play this would be reversed.
Of course as with all irregular troops, quality is varied. Some would surrender at the mere sound of the approach of the enemy, others would fight down to the last man. The ones I have suggested for an appearance in the Ostheer would be somewhere inbetween, more leaning towards the latter.
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« on: April 28, 2010, 05:44:36 AM »
Initially, the Fuhrer forbade the construction of defensive fortifications, as he thought it would be no different from admitting defeat, but after bringing steadily pushed back that changed. I don't think the ability to construct some more solid fortification aside from sand bags is really that unreasonable.
While I definitely agree that should not be the focus of the Ostheer, I think that a doctrine or doctrine branch giving you some actual fortifications would be good, and reflect the shift from offensive to defensive. Just having the ability to build a mortar bunker or something like that doesn't make them equitable to the British. I mean the British have an emplacement for EVERYTHING. Just having a few defensive options that are more than just a pile of rubble strewn across a road as a distraction wouldn't exactly make them the turtle kings.
As for the mines, with all due respect, I don't really think that it's all that great of an idea. In practice, I find that mines aren't really used that much, and they're more of an offensive weapon really. When I think of defenses, I think of something that enhances the survivability of your troops, which mines do not do.
I feel that trenches, as they are in the game now, are something that should remain to the British alone, but that's just my opinion there.
It is true, that the picture I posted is essentially a dugout reinforced with concrete, but it's not equitable to the British trench. The slit trench is purely and earthworks construction, and the fortification I outlined only allows troops to be garrisoned before it is upgraded.
As for the Volkssturm idea, I don't think it's really feasible to have a Panzerfaust that can only be used ten times then discarded, as in I literally don't think that's possible on the game's engine. Though that does give me an idea, perhaps a later tier upgrade could expand the Volkssturm squad by 1, give the squad the VG 1-5 and give the additional man a Panzershreck. This of course would be balanced by a degree of inaccuracy. It's just an alternative.
I wouldn't think of speaking for the developers, but I am getting the impression that one of the general sentiments regarding the overall feel of the Osterheer is that they should reflect the developments of the Eastern war from the initial blitzkrieg to the eventual defeat at Berlin. The Soviets themselves are designed with this in mind.
Don't get me wrong, I think that your ideas are pretty solid, but that they do not reflect this basic philosophy of following the flow of the war.
As such, I think a defensive oriented doctrine, as well as having some non doctrinal defensive options that are introduced perhaps in T3.
I do hope that all of these suggestions do prove to be useful to the developers, and that there is an internal dialogue going on. As it stands now, without a public declaration of a general theme or concept for the faction, that things are becoming kind of redundant and further speculation can only be so helpful without knowing whether it is even going to fit in the generally accepted philosophy of the faction.
9
« on: April 28, 2010, 03:14:27 AM »
I was kind of disappointed to not see this gun among any of the Soviet Infantry.
It is true that it is not so different from the PPSh-41, but it has a smaller clip and less recoil/more accuracy. I think it would be a suitable weapon to be used by the Sturmovie Ingenery and the Seargent of the Shock Guards squad.
It's not a very big thing, but I think that many small details like this make something that is merely good, into something that is great. It would add some much needed uniqueness and individuality to the Soviet Army instead of just having every single SMG used be the PPSh-41.
10
« on: April 28, 2010, 02:52:42 AM »
Seems like a pretty good concept overall, but one thing I think it's lacking is defensive options. The existing axis factions support very aggressive playstyles, so it would be fresh and unique if there was a doctrine, or at least a branch for a doctrine that supported more of a defensive oriented playstyle. I wouldn't suggest the trench, that is getting rather overdone at this point, but one idea I had was a kind of universal concrete fortification that, by default, has no emplacements but can be garrisoned. Probably would look something like this, but without the flak emplacement. http://www.miniatures.de/germany/esci-8612-flak-vierling-38.jpgIt could be further enhanced by having a different upgrade option depending on which doctrine you chose, like a possible flakvierling, MG, or mortar emplacement. There should also be a unit that can construct the basic defenses of sandbags, tank traps, and barbed wire. I think overall the problem with this concept is that it is too focused on aggression, which is already overdone by the other German factions, and is not as representative as it could be of the stage of the war where Germany was on the defensive. EDIT: Oh yeah, one last suggestion. I like the idea of replacing the weapons over time, but I think the Volkssturm should stop at getting the VG 1-5, STG 44's might be a little OP. Instead, I came up with this possible Research. Emergency Reserves: Volkstturm squads now have a capacity of 5 men, and gain the ability to fire a panzerfaust free(subject to a longer cooldown) or at a very low (less than 30) munitions cost. This would do several things. Firstly, it would keep the unit relevant even in the late game when they would ordinarily be obsolete, and secondly, it represents the massive amounts of Panzerfausts they had squirreled away. In my research, there seems to be evidence of vast stockpiles of panzerfausts and many photo references show they carrying panzerfausts, as well as a firearm. The cost of the research would be determined through balance of course. Really without actually having these things in the game, putting costs to things is just making wild guesses, at best.
11
« on: April 27, 2010, 08:28:53 PM »
Oh no no no no, I think you misunderstood me.
I listed those as possible features, they weren't intended to all be included together. I simply suggested that one or several of them could be used, definitely not all of them.
My personal suggestion was just that it would be able to create certain units, serve as a reinforce point, and serve as a retreat point. If that suggestion was taken, then also having it have a mortar pit/flakvierling would be overkill.
but just having it as a unit creation, reinforce, and retreat point I think would be unique among the factions, and certainly no more overpowering than the British mobile HQ's, and of course it has the disadvantage of not being able to move. It would also be balanced out by having the faction not have any other field barracks/forward reinforce point options.
Then of course there is the problem of defensive buildings. I think a mortar bunker would be a cool option that could be limited to a defensive oriented doctrine and be balanced by a fuel cost or pop cap cost similar to the British mortar pit. Of course the advantage over the British mortar pit is that this one is concrete.
However, since that would be a unique doctrinal building, that leaves a vacancy for a defensive building that all the doctrines can use. The standard bunker as used by the Wehrmacht would seem rather cliche, but an interesting alternative would be some kind of buildable garrisonable structure, but how this would be differentiated from the Wehrmacht bunker and British/Soviet slit trenches, I do not know.
12
« on: April 27, 2010, 01:38:36 PM »
One thing I always liked about the British was their defensive playstyle. I like to turtle a lot, and it' something that the Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite can't really do. I thought the whole idea of a mobile base was brilliant, as you could choose to set up and fortify the most defensible position.
Assuming that the overall concept for the Ostheer does follow the soviet one which involves depicting the start of the war to the end, I think it would be interesting to give the final stage of the Ostheer a defensive spin. I came up with an idea that is inspired by the British, but distinct and wholly unique.
So assuming that the faction will follow the flow of the war, with tier 3 representing the Germans on the defensive, I think it would be interesting to give the faction a potential to play defensively a bit, if the player chooses.
I took a look at the Defensive Station and came up with a unique idea. First, the forward strong point should just be done away with. The idea I have is that the Defensive Station would be a base building as you described, except that you have the ability to build it in any friendly territory, with a limit of being able to just have 1 Defensive Station at a time. In addition to that, there are a few things that would also make this unique, the first being is that it is a base building that you can build in any friendly territory, which is unique among any CoH faction as far as I know.
I had some ideas of a few features for the building in addition to this. One or several of the following could be implemented
-Infantry units can reinforce from the Defensive station
-The station can be upgraded to heal infantry in the territory
-The station provides a defensive bonus, similar to the British Captain, to all units in the territory.
-All infantry gain the ability to retreat to wherever the Defensive Station is built
-The station can be garrisoned
-The station has a mortar pit
-The station has a flakvierling on top
In particular, I think the ability for infantry to retreat to the building and the ability for infantry to reinforce from it are critical. Using this concept, the base building functions as the last tier 3 building, and can function as a kind of final redoubt, since it can be built in whatever territory you won and can be placed in a very defensible area, which reflects the defensive nature the war took on for the Germans following their defeat Kursk.
Of course with the removal of the Forward Strong Point, they would need some other defensive structure, which I have not thought of yet.
13
« on: April 27, 2010, 01:23:54 PM »
This is an idea I had for a unit that I posted in Wordsmith's Ostheer Concept page. It could be adapted to work for a variety of different faction setups, depending on how the final concepts for the faction shape up. I must say, overall I think the concept is great. However, I think that some of the units, the infantry in particular, seem rather generic. I have a suggestion of my own to make that may perhaps give more of a unique and individual feel to the faction.
I really like the idea of the 'reserve squad' but I think what I am proposing is a more evolved concept of it. Late in the war, Germany began using 'Volkssturm' troops, which means 'The people's storm' or something like that. I think this would be much more feasible than Hitler Youth conscripts, and they were much more widely used. The Volkssturm troops were mostly conscripts drawn from citizens that had been considered too young or too old to be conscripted before, of course with the impending defeat that changed things. Their basic function would be essentially as you outline for the reserve troops, but I think you can also go another step.
One thing that sometimes annoys me with company of heroes in general is that so many units use the same weapons, even if that is historically accurate, however it's cool to see some unique weapons that were still used on a wide enough scale to be believable in the game.
For the Volkssturm Squad, I think it would be interesting if they came with the MP-3008, a variant of the MP-40 redesigned to be manufactured cheaper for use among the Volkssturm. In gameplay terms it would function almost identically to the MP-40, but I believe it would add individuality and uniqueness to the unit while still maintaining historical accuracy and realism. As an upgrade option, I think the VG 1-5 would be appropriate. The VG 1-5 was a variant of the STG 44 intended specifically for the Volkssturm and redesigned to be manufactured more cheaply. In gameplay terms, it would be similar to the STG(MP)-44 except that it would be semi-automatic instead of automatic. The squad could, balance permitting, have the option to fire a panzerfaust at a nominal munition cost.
I believe that this would be much more interesting than the generic 'reserve squad' and realistic and fun.
MP-3008 Reference Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_3008
VG 1-5 Reference Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturmgewehr_1-5
Volkssturm Squad Visual Reference: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/volkssturm/ib_vs_img1.jpg
Volkstturm Poster: http://www.german-helmets.com/SAURLAND/poster-volkssturm-bw.jpg
EDIT: Alternatively, I came up with another possibility for the loadout and abilities of the Volkssturm Squad. The default Volkssturm Squad would have the MP-3008 as described, but then where it goes from there varies depending on whether you have built the Specialist Training Facility or the Emergency Supply Yard.
If you have built the Emergency supply yard, then the Volkssturm Squad can fire a panzerfaust, free of munitions, which would be balanced by a longer cooldown time perhaps. In the hypothetical adoption of this concept, the Volkssturm Squad could only fire the panzerfaust if you have the Emergency Supply Yard.
If you have built the Specialist Training Facility, then the Volkssturm squad does not have the ability to fire the panzerfaust period, and comes equipped with the VG 1-5 or alternatively has the ability to upgrade to the VG 1-5, as well as the ability to throw a grenade at a nominal munition cost.
Now that I think about it more, these ideas do fit the overall theme of this concept, which is the war in 'stages' so to speak. My concept for the unit is less of a 'cheap unit to spam' and more of a moderately effective unit that is very useful for those low on resources, and hence those who probably have less territory and are losing.
I will elaborate. With the emergency supply yard variant, the squad is going to be more of an anti-vehicle squad than an anti infantry. Since the panzerfaust uses are free, this encourages the use of the unit when the player has little to no access to munitions. This is counterbalanced by the fact that their is a relatively longer cooldown time compared to say the panzerfaust of the Volksgrenadier, and the fact that the panzerfaust is only marginally effective against armor compared to the panzershreck. Thus when the player is doing poorly/has few territories, they would be more likely to use this unit which actually reflects the historical employment of these soldiers, but when they are doing well they would be better off to spend the resources on troops that they can purchase panzershrecks for.
The same is true for the Specialist Training Facility variant, but in a slightly different sense. If they come equipped with the VG 1-5, they will be a decent anti-infantry squad. However, compared to a true STG 44, it is not nearly as effective since the VG 1-5 only has a semi-automatic firing mode. Therefore if the player has the resources to spend on troops that can have STG 44's purchased for them, then they would be better off doing so. However, in the opposite case, since the Volkssturm squad costs only manpower, I would presume, that the cost of the lessened effectiveness would be worth the trade-off due to the fact that you do not have to expend munitions to get the VG 1-5.
This unit would be able to help the Ostheer player stabilize his line and regain his footing against swarms of cheap Soviet infantry or vehicles until more territories can be acquired and more powerful units purchased. Not to mention the fact that since this is not a tier 1 unit, that I do not think it would be particularly unbalancing.
I have some other ideas floating around in my head to improve the overall idea of this particular concept for the Ostheer faction, and would be glad to share them if you are interested.
14
« on: April 27, 2010, 10:43:11 AM »
I must say, overall I think the concept is great. However, I think that some of the units, the infantry in particular, seem rather generic. I have a suggestion of my own to make that may perhaps give more of a unique and individual feel to the faction. I really like the idea of the 'reserve squad' but I think what I am proposing is a more evolved concept of it. Late in the war, Germany began using 'Volkssturm' troops, which means 'The people's storm' or something like that. I think this would be much more feasible than Hitler Youth conscripts, and they were much more widely used. The Volkssturm troops were mostly conscripts drawn from citizens that had been considered too young or too old to be conscripted before, of course with the impending defeat that changed things. Their basic function would be essentially as you outline for the reserve troops, but I think you can also go another step. One thing that sometimes annoys me with company of heroes in general is that so many units use the same weapons, even if that is historically accurate, however it's cool to see some unique weapons that were still used on a wide enough scale to be believable in the game. For the Volkssturm Squad, I think it would be interesting if they came with the MP-3008, a variant of the MP-40 redesigned to be manufactured cheaper for use among the Volkssturm. In gameplay terms it would function almost identically to the MP-40, but I believe it would add individuality and uniqueness to the unit while still maintaining historical accuracy and realism. As an upgrade option, I think the VG 1-5 would be appropriate. The VG 1-5 was a variant of the STG 44 intended specifically for the Volkssturm and redesigned to be manufactured more cheaply. In gameplay terms, it would be similar to the STG(MP)-44 except that it would be semi-automatic instead of automatic. The squad could, balance permitting, have the option to fire a panzerfaust at a nominal munition cost. I believe that this would be much more interesting than the generic 'reserve squad' and realistic and fun. MP-3008 Reference Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_3008VG 1-5 Reference Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturmgewehr_1-5Volkssturm Squad Visual Reference: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/volkssturm/ib_vs_img1.jpgVolkstturm Poster: http://www.german-helmets.com/SAURLAND/poster-volkssturm-bw.jpgEDIT: Alternatively, I came up with another possibility for the loadout and abilities of the Volkssturm Squad. The default Volkssturm Squad would have the MP-3008 as described, but then where it goes from there varies depending on whether you have built the Specialist Training Facility or the Emergency Supply Yard. If you have built the Emergency supply yard, then the Volkssturm Squad can fire a panzerfaust, free of munitions, which would be balanced by a longer cooldown time perhaps. In the hypothetical adoption of this concept, the Volkssturm Squad could only fire the panzerfaust if you have the Emergency Supply Yard. If you have built the Specialist Training Facility, then the Volkssturm squad does not have the ability to fire the panzerfaust period, and comes equipped with the VG 1-5 or alternatively has the ability to upgrade to the VG 1-5, as well as the ability to throw a grenade at a nominal munition cost. Now that I think about it more, these ideas do fit the overall theme of this concept, which is the war in 'stages' so to speak. My concept for the unit is less of a 'cheap unit to spam' and more of a moderately effective unit that is very useful for those low on resources, and hence those who probably have less territory and are losing. I will elaborate. With the emergency supply yard variant, the squad is going to be more of an anti-vehicle squad than an anti infantry. Since the panzerfaust uses are free, this encourages the use of the unit when the player has little to no access to munitions. This is counterbalanced by the fact that their is a relatively longer cooldown time compared to say the panzerfaust of the Volksgrenadier, and the fact that the panzerfaust is only marginally effective against armor compared to the panzershreck. Thus when the player is doing poorly/has few territories, they would be more likely to use this unit which actually reflects the historical employment of these soldiers, but when they are doing well they would be better off to spend the resources on troops that they can purchase panzershrecks for. The same is true for the Specialist Training Facility variant, but in a slightly different sense. If they come equipped with the VG 1-5, they will be a decent anti-infantry squad. However, compared to a true STG 44, it is not nearly as effective since the VG 1-5 only has a semi-automatic firing mode. Therefore if the player has the resources to spend on troops that can have STG 44's purchased for them, then they would be better off doing so. However, in the opposite case, since the Volkssturm squad costs only manpower, I would presume, that the cost of the lessened effectiveness would be worth the trade-off due to the fact that you do not have to expend munitions to get the VG 1-5. This unit would be able to help the Ostheer player stabilize his line and regain his footing against swarms of cheap Soviet infantry or vehicles until more territories can be acquired and more powerful units purchased. Not to mention the fact that since this is not a tier 1 unit, that I do not think it would be particularly unbalancing. I have some other ideas floating around in my head to improve the overall idea of this particular concept for the Ostheer faction, and would be glad to share them if you are interested.
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