Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Announcements (Read-Only) => Announcements => Topic started by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 05:51:53 PM

Title: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 05:51:53 PM
(http://www.easternfront.org/uploads/WartyX/osth.png)

* Remember that skins and Doctrines are still WIP. They aren't final so expect it to change a little bit as time goes.

This time we'll show the commander tree options you will have when playing the Ostheer. They are named Army Support Troops, Army Elite Troops and Army Fortress Troops.

Army Support Troops

Luftwaffe Support

Foreign Support


Army Elite Troops

Assault Battalion

Elite Battalion  


Army Fortress Troops

Improved Defences

Improved Supply






Meanwhile from the front...

(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/blackbishop/EF-Content/relic00937.png)
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/blackbishop/EF-Content/relic00938.png)
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/blackbishop/EF-Content/relic00941.png)(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/blackbishop/EF-Content/relic009441.png)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: revoluzer on April 14, 2011, 06:13:29 PM
Great ideas...

either "army support troops" or "army elite troops" become my favorite doctrine. As you revealed everthing of the new faction, what will the next update contain?  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 14, 2011, 06:17:21 PM
Thank you!  :D

Army Elite Troops will be my favourite one (Elefant + buildable Tiger) ;D

You made my day

PS.: Beautiful skins :)

EDIT: What is this 7 member squad in the first picture?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 14, 2011, 06:22:03 PM
AWESOME!  :D :D

Thanks Devs, very nice CT!  8)

Ferdinand and Wespe FTW! :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 14, 2011, 06:51:40 PM
Foreign Battlegroup - 3CP (Call-in two random Foreign squads (or 1 random squad plus a random crewed weapon) and 2 Foreign Tanks

Are the tanks really foreign ones (like Hungarian Toldi) or just German ones with foreign skins?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Shadowmetroid on April 14, 2011, 06:53:17 PM
Cool.  Really cool.  :D

Can't wait to try out the "troops".
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Olecsandr1942 on April 14, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
прикольные войска, а когда выйдет бета-версия Osther???? 
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 14, 2011, 07:13:06 PM
I suppose that you asked when Ostheer will released...when it's done!

Please write in English in this forum  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy on April 14, 2011, 07:16:03 PM
@revoluzer, not everything ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gogo on April 14, 2011, 08:01:32 PM
Show us the tanks ;D
Or atleast say who are the Foreign Tanks  :P?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Baker Easy on April 14, 2011, 08:05:15 PM
Looks pretty cool, though I thought you guys weren't going to do foreign troops?  I don't personally have a problem with it, just that's the tone I seem to have gotten from previous discussions on the topic.  ;)

I'm not so sure about the paratroopers since there were never any German airborne operations on the Russian Front (and none at all after the Battle of Crete in May 1941, though I'm sure most of you knew that already), but this mod isn't trying to be strictly historical so I suppose it's okay.

Just bugs me a leeetle.  :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Showtaro on April 14, 2011, 08:11:19 PM
Could u guys host the images on another site? imageshack does not allow unregistered users to see the pics. :(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 14, 2011, 08:19:49 PM
but this mod isn't trying to be strictly historical so I suppose it's okay.

Historical accuracy when it's possible. ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy on April 14, 2011, 08:22:19 PM
Strange. Bish is upload them now to another site though.

@Baker Easy; that's not entirely true. I though that as well; but after Crete it was simply large scale airborne operations that were more or less banned. Small operations continued (ive seen dates as late as 1944); namely those of the Brandenburgers (elite special forces).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Paciat on April 14, 2011, 08:30:25 PM
It seems balanced. :)
I doubt there will be achance for a 2 CP tank (Toldi) but some foreign ACs would be nice.
(http://forum.valka.cz/files/tatra-oa-30_1cs.jpg)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Italy/Ita-Autoblinda-AB40-1.JPG)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 08:35:17 PM
@Dragon93
Done.

@Baker Easy
We never discarded that idea afaik :). But the time has come to make a decision about it ;D.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GSmirlis on April 14, 2011, 08:36:36 PM
OK good job guys.
But please if you want Ostheer faction be more realistic add Romanian Support tree  :-\
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Troynl on April 14, 2011, 08:55:47 PM
@GSmirlis the Communist.
Why do you need Romanian army?
first Ostheer can also fight against USA, and Romanian didn't fight against the USA.
Second: it doesn't add much, calling them Romanian support, if you realy want your Romanian army, just RP it or something.

@Developer
Is Tiger Production useless to people who choose Panzer Support??? :o
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 09:03:13 PM
@GSmirlis the Communist.
Why do you need Romanian army?
first Ostheer can also fight against USA, and Romanian didn't fight against the USA.
Second: it doesn't add much, calling them Romanian support, if you realy want your Romanian army, just RP it or something.
+1
Romanian support tree?? If at the end they made to be in the foreign units under a random name is enough for them.

@Developer
Is Tiger Production useless to people who choose Panzer Support??? :o
Well, actually... yes.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 14, 2011, 09:05:23 PM
@Developer
Is Tiger Production useless to people who choose Panzer Support??? :o
Well, actually... yes.
[/quote]

But only one Tiger (on the field) is deployable right?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Paciat on April 14, 2011, 09:15:20 PM
@Developer
Is Tiger Production useless to people who choose Panzer Support??? :o
Well, actually... yes.
Why not make Tiger replace both Panther G and Brummbar then? Just like Brummbar a Tiger has large AoE.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HyperSniper999 on April 14, 2011, 09:16:04 PM
This is everything I asked for, Gebirsjager Snipers and Foreign Troops.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: red_master on April 14, 2011, 09:18:13 PM
Jaja I like how sounds the "Buildable Tiger I"
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 14, 2011, 09:19:18 PM
Very Nice! Good Work!

But, what do you mean by "Random" Foreign Troops, does this mean there will be more than one type of squad and it's randomly selected? Or is it just a group of foreign troops from different countries?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Seeme on April 14, 2011, 09:22:22 PM
I think they will have a bunch of foreign troops, and a few will be selected.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: delmar77 on April 14, 2011, 09:29:28 PM
Stukas with Jericho-Trompete*   ????  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ; Please!!!





*The aircraft was easily recognizable by its inverted gull wings, fixed spatted undercarriage and its infamous Jericho-Trompete ("Jericho Trumpet") wailing siren, becoming the propaganda symbol of German air power and the Blitzkrieg victories of 1939–1942.
by Wikipedia english
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 09:30:57 PM
Very Nice! Good Work!

But, what do you mean by "Random" Foreign Troops, does this mean there will be more than one type of squad and it's randomly selected? Or is it just a group of foreign troops from different countries?
Yes, the first assumption.

@Developer
Is Tiger Production useless to people who choose Panzer Support??? :o
Well, actually... yes.

But only one Tiger (on the field) is deployable right?
There's no hard caps on OH Tiger, but will have something special to help not be spammed, not related to firepower though but you might guess what are we talking about.

The intention is not hard capping it, but if the tiger couldn't be balanced will be changed.

@Developer
Is Tiger Production useless to people who choose Panzer Support??? :o
Well, actually... yes.
Why not make Tiger replace both Panther G and Brummbar then? Just like Brummbar a Tiger has large AoE.
Don't worry about it, we'll think something about it ;).

I think they will have a bunch of foreign troops, and a few will be selected.
I don't think will be that much or at least not at release date, we need to animate all ostheer vehicles, don't know how many foreign troops might be ready for that date.

Stukas with Jericho-Trompete*   ????  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ; Please!!!





*The aircraft was easily recognizable by its inverted gull wings, fixed spatted undercarriage and its infamous Jericho-Trompete ("Jericho Trumpet") wailing siren, becoming the propaganda symbol of German air power and the Blitzkrieg victories of 1939–1942.
by Wikipedia english
Afaik it will have it's siren.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Nubrannosaurus on April 14, 2011, 09:41:59 PM
Hey guys, nice job so far!  A few quick questions if you don't mind:

1.  Does the Luftwaffe Recon Command function differently from America's Recon Airborne ability?  If not, what reasons did you guys have for choosing this ability?

2.  In the Luftwaffe Recon Command is the "stuka support" the same as "Aces High!"?  If not, what exactly does "stuka support" do?

3.  What are panzernests and trip wires?  Are they equivalent to tank traps and barbed wire? 

4.  There's only a single player active ability that does damage (Aces High!), what were your reasons for doing this?  Not criticizing your choices, simply curious why this was done.


Thanks, guys, that's all.  Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 14, 2011, 09:45:49 PM
 :o

AMAZING!

Could you release countries that will be on the random squad list? Will they be drastically different, or all serve the same purpose?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 14, 2011, 09:53:11 PM
We want Alpini!  :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Venoxxis on April 14, 2011, 10:35:50 PM
nice update!
i just hope we wont get ugly brown tigers, again  :-\
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: vadlama on April 14, 2011, 10:44:01 PM
If there will be more foregin troops, then there will be difference between the romanian or italian or hungarian or the others? I mean, like the wehrmacht, volks, grenadiers, knight cross? italians comes with smg, romanians with rifle, etc? or they will be the same, just other names and skins?

is the Sdkfz/263 have something weapon, so it can defend itself? or deployable like the PE scout car?

the "Panzerkrieg!" and the "Ostkrieg!" active or passive ability?

and as I see, there will be no off-map arty support, just the "Aces High!" (and I think it will be a little, fast bombdrop)

and the recon planes are like the british radio triangulation (a lot of red dot on the map) or like american recon run?

With respect!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 10:51:36 PM
1.  Does the Luftwaffe Recon Command function differently from America's Recon Airborne ability?  If not, what reasons did you guys have for choosing this ability?
Well, the recon works the same i guess, besides you need the command vehicle. And will help brandenburgers to get behind enemy lines.

2.  In the Luftwaffe Recon Command is the "stuka support" the same as "Aces High!"?  If not, what exactly does "stuka support" do?
Is the same.

3.  What are panzernests and trip wires?  Are they equivalent to tank traps and barbed wire?
This is a panzernest:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/MG_Panzernest.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/MG_Panzernest.jpg)
It's a "small" metal bunker.

Trip wires could be like those fire traps of the Schwim. But will be a booby-trapped wires instead ;).


4.  There's only a single player active ability that does damage (Aces High!), what were your reasons for doing this?  Not criticizing your choices, simply curious why this was done.
I don't think i can answer that XD.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 10:53:40 PM
nice update!
i just hope we wont get ugly brown tigers, again  :-\
Yes, those Brown Tigers will be for Ostheer, i like that brown skin though ;D!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 14, 2011, 11:11:56 PM
If there will be more foregin troops, then there will be difference between the romanian or italian or hungarian or the others? I mean, like the wehrmacht, volks, grenadiers, knight cross? italians comes with smg, romanians with rifle, etc? or they will be the same, just other names and skins?

is the Sdkfz/263 have something weapon, so it can defend itself? or deployable like the PE scout car?

the "Panzerkrieg!" and the "Ostkrieg!" active or passive ability?

and as I see, there will be no off-map arty support, just the "Aces High!" (and I think it will be a little, fast bombdrop)

and the recon planes are like the british radio triangulation (a lot of red dot on the map) or like american recon run?

With respect!
The Sdkfz 263 will be like PE's scout car i guess. If they would be the same, we wouldn't add different foreign units. The storch will do a similar job than recon run i guess.

Yeah, there's no arty support... but you have the brummbar :D.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on April 14, 2011, 11:19:04 PM
nice update!
i just hope we wont get ugly brown tigers, again  :-\
Are you dishing my skins?
(http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/images/2010/11/Hulk.jpg)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 14, 2011, 11:32:42 PM
army elite doctrine ftw? yes plz
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 01:57:33 AM
I realize, that paratroopers for a german faction is a life-time dream of many axis players since the very first release of the vanilla, but that's just too much, guys.
Infiltration? Yes, but make it partisan-like. Germans para-dropping in SU? Well, there have been A COUPLE of such, but on that scale, you're proposing - that's pure bullshit, and that's OP.
And don't tell me, it's WIP,- it's paradrops, I know, what these are.

Post Merge: April 15, 2011, 02:18:31 AM
To people, who are going to argue, that these could be some "western front" paratroopers mainly, I recall the dev. team (in part, at least) stating OH as the direct counter to SU, and no less than that. So, I suppose, it should reflect axis forces on the eastern front, not in Italy, etc.,- that's what other axis factions are there for, to begin with.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HyperSniper999 on April 15, 2011, 03:32:07 AM
I realize, that paratroopers for a german faction is a life-time dream of many axis players since the very first release of the vanilla, but that's just too much, guys.
Infiltration? Yes, but make it partisan-like. Germans para-dropping in SU? Well, there have been A COUPLE of such, but on that scale, you're proposing - that's pure bullshit, and that's OP.
And don't tell me, it's WIP,- it's paradrops, I know, what these are.

Post Merge: April 15, 2011, 02:18:31 AM
To people, who are going to argue, that these could be some "western front" paratroopers mainly, I recall the dev. team (in part, at least) stating OH as the direct counter to SU, and no less than that. So, I suppose, it should reflect axis forces on the eastern front, not in Italy, etc.,- that's what other axis factions are there for, to begin with.
The invasion began what, June 1941? So was that before or after Mercury? After Mercury major Fallschirmjager air drops became rare doue to the disaster Mercury was in the beginning.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 03:55:00 AM
The invasion began what, June 1941? So was that before or after Mercury? After Mercury major Fallschirmjager air drops became rare doue to the disaster Mercury was in the beginning.
Germans didn't really exercise a lot of paradropping during that war. So these guys, doctrinally dropping from above in copious numbers (everybody loves to spam call-in elite, +the "super reinforcement" thing), is like that ridiculous V-rocket firing at military targets.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 15, 2011, 04:02:56 AM
The invasion began what, June 1941? So was that before or after Mercury? After Mercury major Fallschirmjager air drops became rare doue to the disaster Mercury was in the beginning.
Germans didn't really exercise a lot of paradropping during that war. So these guys, doctrinally dropping from above in copious numbers (everybody loves to spam call-in elite, +the "super reinforcement" thing), is like that ridiculous V-rocket firing at military targets.
I don't see a reason why this should be discarded. If can be balanced and it's not a crazy idea, i don't see a problem.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HyperSniper999 on April 15, 2011, 04:05:35 AM
The invasion began what, June 1941? So was that before or after Mercury? After Mercury major Fallschirmjager air drops became rare doue to the disaster Mercury was in the beginning.
Germans didn't really exercise a lot of paradropping during that war. So these guys, doctrinally dropping from above in copious numbers (everybody loves to spam call-in elite, +the "super reinforcement" thing), is like that ridiculous V-rocket firing at military targets.
I don't see a reason why this should be discarded. If can be balanced and it's not a crazy idea, i don't see a problem.
Still, wouldn't be accurate would it?
Although then again, you have Penal Conscripts running around also...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 04:09:02 AM
Although then again, you have Penal Conscripts running around also...
It's like comparing a club to a machine-gun...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 15, 2011, 05:01:59 AM
So, I suppose, it should reflect axis forces on the eastern front, not in Italy, etc.,- that's what other axis factions are there for, to begin with.

Mussolini sent a large number of troops (relatively small compared to Germany as a whole, but enough to be significant) to fight on the eastern front, and there were Italian divisions in Stalingrad at the time of the siege. Of course, they were devastated due to the horrible morale, and the losses at Stalingrad really de-moralized Italians back home.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 05:15:00 AM
So, I suppose, it should reflect axis forces on the eastern front, not in Italy, etc.,- that's what other axis factions are there for, to begin with.

Mussolini sent a large number of troops (relatively small compared to Germany as a whole, but enough to be significant) to fight on the eastern front, and there were Italian divisions in Stalingrad at the time of the siege. Of course, they were devastated due to the horrible morale, and the losses at Stalingrad really de-moralized Italians back home.
Man, RE-READ my message, you've quoted here, and get it: it's not about italian troops, it's about absurdness and OPness of axis elite paratroopers.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy on April 15, 2011, 05:26:08 AM
The invasion began what, June 1941? So was that before or after Mercury? After Mercury major Fallschirmjager air drops became rare doue to the disaster Mercury was in the beginning.
Germans didn't really exercise a lot of paradropping during that war. So these guys, doctrinally dropping from above in copious numbers (everybody loves to spam call-in elite, +the "super reinforcement" thing), is like that ridiculous V-rocket firing at military targets.
I don't see a reason why this should be discarded. If can be balanced and it's not a crazy idea, i don't see a problem.
Still, wouldn't be accurate would it?
Although then again, you have Penal Conscripts running around also...


The German Airborne; aka Fallschrimjagers did indeed stop airborne assaults - and eventually completed stopped getting any airborne training.
After Mercury Hitler more or less banned large scale airborne operations; small scale landings continued.
Brandenburgers converted to being completely land based though in September 1944.

Anyway - the way they will be working in EF won't be for large scale operations like the US Airborne in CoH. Skilled and deadly; they'll be designed to fuck shit up and annoy you ;)
Late 1944 when the majority of Brandenburgers met their end..."Many Brandenburgers, highly skilled in evading detection, simply disappeared."

"Operating under false identity of NKVD Major Truchin based in Stalingrad, Fölkersam explained his role in recovering the deserters to the Soviet commander in charge of Maikop's defenses. The commander not only believed Fölkersam, but the next day gave him a personal tour of the city's defenses. By August 8, the German spearheads were only 12 miles away. The Brandenburgers made their move. Using grenades to simulate an artillery attack, they knocked out the military communications center for the city. Fölkersam then went to the Russian defenders and told them that a withdrawal was taking place. Having seen Fölkersam with their commander and lacking any communications to rebut or confirm his statement, the Soviets began to evacuate Maikop. The German spearhead entered the city without a fight on August 9, 1942."

;)
Note; Brandenburger paratroopers will be 2 man squads.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Mattdamon07 on April 15, 2011, 05:47:30 AM
i like the it but what are the panzernests for? and what will tripwires do?
i like the skins but are those landser on the top pics?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 15, 2011, 06:35:20 AM
i like the it but what are the panzernests for? and what will tripwires do?
i like the skins but are those landser on the top pics?

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5651.msg64378#msg64378 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5651.msg64378#msg64378)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 15, 2011, 07:17:50 AM
So, I suppose, it should reflect axis forces on the eastern front, not in Italy, etc.,- that's what other axis factions are there for, to begin with.

Mussolini sent a large number of troops (relatively small compared to Germany as a whole, but enough to be significant) to fight on the eastern front, and there were Italian divisions in Stalingrad at the time of the siege. Of course, they were devastated due to the horrible morale, and the losses at Stalingrad really de-moralized Italians back home.
Man, RE-READ my message, you've quoted here, and get it: it's not about italian troops, it's about absurdness and OPness of axis elite paratroopers.

dont despair comrade nothing good ol soviet blob cant handle ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: TheReaper on April 15, 2011, 11:33:25 AM
Foreign troops? OMG Will there any of these vehicles?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39M_Csaba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39M_Csaba)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toldi_%28tank%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toldi_%28tank%29)
These units power like the Scout car in PE (the 39M), and Stuard light tank (the Toldi). Or that havent decided yet? :) Or will be vanilla Panzer 3s, or infantry, but different skins? Interesting and creative doctrines ther keep it up!  ;D

Warplay in Hungary 1944 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbPXPSGCBI#) - it's bit low quality but it shows the Royal Hungarian Army.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 15, 2011, 11:53:12 AM
So.. A few question because my first ones (1st page) seem to be ignored  :P

Will the Panzernest (yes, I saw the picture) be an anti tank mine?

What's the 7 member squad in the first picture?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on April 15, 2011, 12:01:04 PM
Its not a 7 member squad, just members from 2 Landstorm squads lol

Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 15, 2011, 12:03:47 PM
So these are Landsers, right?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on April 15, 2011, 12:13:06 PM
Landseers and Landstorm are two different words with two different meanings. You can alsways google them for more info  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GSmirlis on April 15, 2011, 12:27:02 PM
@GSmirlis the Communist.
Why do you need Romanian army?
first Ostheer can also fight against USA, and Romanian didn't fight against the USA.
Second: it doesn't add much, calling them Romanian support, if you realy want your Romanian army, just RP it or something.
+1
Romanian support tree?? If at the end they made to be in the foreign units under a random name is enough for them.

+1 yeah! just add their name :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on April 15, 2011, 01:43:10 PM
Quote
Will the Panzernest (yes, I saw the picture) be an anti tank mine?

I think it will be a mg nest because in the picture you can clearly see the MG.

Quote
Prioritised Support - 2CP (For a short period of time Ostheer produce more resources)

That's overpowerd because the Wehrmacht gets a ressource boost only as the last ability. I think you should switch it with Prioritised Weapons - 2CP (For a short period of time Ostheer produce units faster).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ghost on April 15, 2011, 01:58:17 PM
[...]
Quote
Prioritised Support - 2CP (For a short period of time Ostheer produce more resources)

That's overpowerd because the Wehrmacht gets a ressource boost only as the last ability. I think you should switch it with Prioritised Weapons - 2CP (For a short period of time Ostheer produce units faster).
i get your point but we don't know anything about duration and costs and how much additional ressources it will give. let's wait for OH beta balance tests  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ettore Muti on April 15, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Looks pretty cool, though I thought you guys weren't going to do foreign troops?  I don't personally have a problem with it, just that's the tone I seem to have gotten from previous discussions on the topic.  ;)

I'm not so sure about the paratroopers since there were never any German airborne operations on the Russian Front (and none at all after the Battle of Crete in May 1941, though I'm sure most of you knew that already), but this mod isn't trying to be strictly historical so I suppose it's okay.

Just bugs me a leeetle.  :P


A few airborne dropes were done in Russia;for example,during the battle of Moscow,a company of FJ were dropped over the airport,but anyway they were not common,and not large enough to include more then 1-2 companies.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 15, 2011, 04:05:40 PM
Much better picture of a Panzernest. It even explains how it was mobile!

http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/neo/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/osprey_panzernest.jpg (http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/neo/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/osprey_panzernest.jpg)

Please don't tell me pios can move it?  :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on April 15, 2011, 04:13:27 PM
No.
It wont be able to move.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 15, 2011, 04:14:49 PM
Oh darn :(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 04:17:12 PM
Is it really supposed to be mobile?
As I understood from the illustration, that chariot was simply a mean of delivery.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GamblerSK on April 15, 2011, 04:19:40 PM
i hope one foreign tank will be LT 38 (panzer 38t)
i think it deserve it :)

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Czechoslowakian_armoured_vehicles.pdf (http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Czechoslowakian_armoured_vehicles.pdf)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Sommarkatze on April 15, 2011, 05:16:38 PM
Oh boy! These are great news! :D That you did put the foreign troops in is also awesome!? The fanboys most go crazy right now :D However I have been woundering. The buidable tiger 1 ?

Dosent that one makes Wehrmachts Tiger 1 kind of useless? Well its still good and strong but the Ostheer can build one of their best units? XD

Owh and ofc. The Tiger 2 with Henschel turret!?

owh god..
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1371/cum.gif) (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/cum.gif/)



Thank you<3 THank you<3 You guys are the best. As a bigtime nerd this is purely awesome. Iam currently broke big time but the minute I get money I will donate. You guys rock and are heroes<3

*Put iron crosses on the EF dev teams chest*

Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 05:20:02 PM
 :-X
[currently throwing up]
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on April 15, 2011, 05:27:44 PM
@Sommarkatze - calm down mate....
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: One-eye on April 15, 2011, 05:52:12 PM
Oh wow this update is really awe....
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HasTler on April 15, 2011, 06:10:13 PM
Hallo ich schrieb liebr in deutsch mein englisch ist ne so besonders^^

also find alles sehr klasse besonders das mit dem sdkfz für die luft unterstützung... ich würde aber den königstiger weglassen mit dem elefanten haben die dann 2 superschwerepanzer... setzt lieber den elefanten auf die stelle des königstigers (ist ja an sich schon eine festung^^) und da wo er vorher war den tausch vom phanter zum tiger dafür wechselt aber auch der marder II zun nashorn (8,8er für die front^^).. da wo der tiger vorher war einen wechsel des stugs zum jagtpanzer IV somit werden die standart einheiten gegen "Eliteeinheiten" gewechselt  würde dann auch besser zum namen passen...

nur so eine idee von mir ;)

Und eine Anmerkung von mir: Englisch wäre uns lieber ;)
Ich kann das lesen und verstehen, aber der Rest? Also; Auch
wenn dein Schulenglisch kein 1+ ist, so würden wir uns eher
über englische Anmerkungen freuen - weil dann eben mehr Leute
dran teilhaben können ;) -. In diesem Sinne: We would be happy when u could translate your text for the community.
Lord Rommel - EF-Dev


ps nice Infskins
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 15, 2011, 06:18:50 PM
Das ist ein englisches Forum, auch wenn du überhaupt kein Englisch sprechen kannst, benutze doch bitte den Google-Übersetzer. Ist nicht gern gesehen. Ich übernehm das mal eben. Translation:

This is an English speaking forum, even if you can't speak any English, please use Google translator. Something like this isn't that welcome here. I'll take care of it.

Quote
I like it all, but especially the SdKfz for air support. I'd leave out the King Tiger, with Elefant they have two super heavy tanks. Better would be setting the Elefant on the King Tigers spot (it's like a fortification itself^^) and where it has been before, add to Tiger replaces Panther the option to replace Marder II with Nashorn (8,8 for the front^^).. where the tiger has been before, a change from StuG III to JgPz IV would be good in favour of exchanging the standard units with "Eliteeinheiten" (elite troups), would actually fit the name [of the doctrine] better..

Just an idea by me ;)

ps nice Infskins

Maxi

Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 15, 2011, 08:38:30 PM
ja das ubersetzer!

lool :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 15, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
ja das ubersetzer!

Der Übersetzer ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 08:48:41 PM
ja das ubersetzer!

Der Übersetzer ;)
Sind sie ein Grammar Nazi?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 15, 2011, 08:53:21 PM
ja das ubersetzer!
Der Übersetzer ;)
Sind sie ein Grammar Nazi?

Kind of, that's why I joined the translators. But I am under no circumstances a nazi.  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 15, 2011, 09:00:45 PM
Sorry for that - I should've added some smileys  :-[
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Rikard Blixt on April 16, 2011, 07:28:49 PM
ja das ubersetzer!
Der Übersetzer ;)
Sind sie ein Grammar Nazi?

Kind of, that's why I joined the translators. But I am under no circumstances a nazi.  ;)

I'm guessing he was refereeing to this
(http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/22249-spelling_and_or_grammar_nazi.jpg)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 16, 2011, 07:47:41 PM
I've no idea what is it.  ???

Anyway we're OT. ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GATHRAWN on April 16, 2011, 09:45:08 PM
just wondering if the stuka you will be useing is going to be the Ju 87 B/D or are you going for the more specialized Ju 87 G with the 37 mm (1.46 in) Flak 18 guns mounted under the wings?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: BurroDiablo on April 17, 2011, 01:07:36 AM
They way I envisioned the Stuka, it would dive in and unload a single 250kg bomb precisely on target, it would work like an underpowered V1 or a plane crash, also I don't think it should be able to be called in in the base sector. This isn't an ability you'd be able to just drop wherever you have LoS, you'd need the Luftkommand vehicle (or whatever the feck it's going to be called) nearby in order to call in such a devastating attack. However, not being lead designer or a balance expert, in the end it'll be down to whatever works in the fairest and most balanced way.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Mattdamon07 on April 17, 2011, 12:45:13 PM
to be honest i dont like the foreign support thing, is it to late to think of something else to replace it?

Post Merge: April 17, 2011, 12:48:34 PM
how about like westren support, kinda of like having vetren units from the other axis factions
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on April 17, 2011, 01:05:39 PM
to be honest i dont like the foreign support thing, is it to late to think of something else to replace it?

Post Merge: April 17, 2011, 12:48:34 PM
how about like westren support, kinda of like having vetren units from the other axis factions
So...you'd create a new faction and instead of new units, you'd have the ability to call units from the old 2 factions and fight alongside the old factions....right, pretty original. Mix and match WH/PE and call it Ostheer?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 17, 2011, 01:47:24 PM
to be honest i dont like the foreign support thing, is it to late to think of something else to replace it?

Post Merge: April 17, 2011, 12:48:34 PM
how about like westren support, kinda of like having vetren units from the other axis factions
So...you'd create a new faction and instead of new units, you'd have the ability to call units from the old 2 factions and fight alongside the old factions....right, pretty original. Mix and match WH/PE and call it Ostheer?

+1 Zerstorer  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: 777mais777 on April 17, 2011, 04:45:33 PM
Where is it possible to download this version? :'(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on April 17, 2011, 04:48:16 PM
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT DONE!

No download - we will INFORM u about release...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: EightMinds on April 17, 2011, 05:48:01 PM
Oooh boy, Doctrines~!

Although like others, I'd like to share a few of my thoughts...


Luftwaffe Support
Recon Command reminds me of Radar Van from C&C:Generals, heh, it's a pretty neat idea. But do they have a limited range for calling in support? Also, seeing how small Brandenburger squads are, I'm willing to bet they're as tough as the Ritterkruez.


Foreign Support
Calling in Foreign troops sounds fun, but why not give foreign troops the same stats while simply alternating their uniforms and names? Sort of like Dark Templar in SCII. It would be simpler, I guess?


Assault Battalion
Jaegers sound fun to use, but the Tiger production sort of feels like a double-edged sword to me. I mean, you still get Tigers, which are stronger, but you'd lose the ability to field Panthers, which are faster, and I would presume, cheaper.


Improved Defences
Question. How well would the Wespe be compared to PE's Hummel?


Improved Supply
Why not make Prioritized Support and Prioritized Weapons toggle-able? That way, a OH player can prioritize either on his/her resources, weaponry, or balance the priorities.



Well, some of my ideas/suggestions look stupid, I know, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts a bit. Thanks.

Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 17, 2011, 11:02:40 PM
Hi there!! Good job kamarads!
1. I thing it was a good ideea to combine Self propeled arty with Luftwaffe Recon. Reveal and hit tactic..:-?
2. I thing the Sturer Emil is more beautiful than Elephant...
3. Aaand...i hope that the  Wespe is a little bit violent than Hummel (fast move on the ground and fast reload)?

sorry about my english:(

Post Merge: April 17, 2011, 11:28:43 PM
It will be nice if we could take down Stuka Recon ..and for a some time nothing fly above our heads...the zone will be again in shadow if the stuka is silent.

sorry about my f..english grammar:(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Mattdamon07 on April 17, 2011, 11:32:56 PM
stuka recon would be fucked up and stupid , should be more like messershmicht recon instead
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 17, 2011, 11:35:52 PM
Hummel had bigger gun than wespe IIRC

The devs know what they're doing so dont worry :)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 18, 2011, 12:15:00 AM
Hi there!! Good job kamarads!
1. I thing it was a good ideea to combine Self propeled arty with Luftwaffe Recon. Reveal and hit tactic..:-?
2. I thing the Sturer Emil is more beautiful than Elephant...
3. Aaand...i hope that the  Wespe is a little bit violent than Hummel (fast move on the ground and fast reload)?

sorry about my english:(

Post Merge: April 17, 2011, 11:28:43 PM
It will be nice if we could take down Stuka Recon ..and for a some time nothing fly above our heads...the zone will be again in shadow if the stuka is silent.

sorry about my f..english grammar:(
I would like to think that Sturer Emil could be the reward unit for the Elefant :).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 18, 2011, 12:27:46 AM
I would like to think that Sturer Emil could be the reward unit for the Elefant :).

Also Nashorn could be a good/cool/sexy unit, more important than Sturer Emil (480 units produced against 2).

Anyway... ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: 777mais777 on April 18, 2011, 01:20:03 AM
Where we can play this masterpiece? ???
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 18, 2011, 01:28:55 AM
Where we can play this masterpiece? ???
You mean ostheer?? Don't know, it's not released yet.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 18, 2011, 01:39:00 AM
Where we can play this masterpiece? ???

Dude, you asked the same question twice on the same thread. For Christ sake Lord Rommel posted a DIRECT and IMMEDIATE response:

OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT DONE!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: wordsmith on April 18, 2011, 07:29:40 AM
Good job boys, finally some new pics of infantry. I'm waiting for Ostheer to include new models + skins into my new comic book. I have quite a good story ready for long time but I was waiting for new graphics.

Some notes about doctrines:
1. another King Tiger seems redundant, please consider a change. For example:
Prestige troops (3CP)- thanks to your prestige Army Command will send you some experienced troops
- player active ability, for a period of 1min. all experience of all unit gained during combat is doubled, cooldown 5min.

or

Field promotion (4CP)
- every unit will receive a possible upgrade which when activated will add one level of veterancy automatically, it will be possible only from level 0 to 1 and only once. The cost would be in MP, equal to half of the unit's cost in MP. (i.e. if an infantry with cost of 300MP will be upgraded, it will cost additional 150MP and will receive veterancy level 1)

2. Tiger which replaces Panther - IMO Panther should not be included in Ostheer, instead of it Tiger should, doctrinal ability could then call-in Nashorn for example
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: 777mais777 on April 18, 2011, 11:16:40 AM
Execuse me,i don't speak english very well...((
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on April 18, 2011, 11:44:25 AM
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT DONE!

Dude gotta change my Signatur to this :P.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on April 18, 2011, 11:55:59 AM
shouldn't be there "Ostheer is done when is done" ?

Field promotion sounds quite cool, but I'd rather see it as an off map ability, not as an upgrade.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 18, 2011, 11:57:52 AM
Don't touch my Panther:))
More Tigers it seem to OP...and Panther is a good tank. What u can say about Panther II? Panther II vs T34-85 :>?

Nashorn
This is the Big Brother of Sturer and Marder. We allready have Marders, so next "born" is Sturer Emil...

Conclusion.
I knew...all of us want all the toys from the store...like a bad-bad f***ing kid! We must to decide quickly(because i want to play ostheer before i die:)) )...to chose between these uncomparable beautys,...it's sad, but thing that one day u will play with yankees vs "All Stars Ostheer"...and u'll cry after..
That's what i thing.

P.S.
By the way...we have a chance to play with all this beauty...only if our devs make a "evolution" in history (after Osther,no rush:) )

excuse my english pls:(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: wordsmith on April 18, 2011, 12:12:47 PM
Don't touch my Panther:))
More Tigers it seem to OP...and Panther is a good tank. What u can say about Panther II? Panther II vs T34-85 :>?

Nashorn
This is the Big Brother of Sturer and Marder. We allready have Marders, so next "born" is Sturer Emil...

Why bother to include new units if you can put all units from Wehr+PE and just change skins/adjust combat values?

I like Panther too, but I'm not looking forward to see it in Ostheer. What about making a Tiger which will have same combat data as Panther? Would it be ok? Panther model inside Tiger skin. And honestly I don't know where it come from that Tiger is OP, because there is no problem to decrease some of its values if this was the problem.

Regarding Nashorn: it is still better than remodelled King Tiger... if devs have new model of KT why don't they just replace the present model in Terror doctr. of Wehr? It would be better solution.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 18, 2011, 12:33:41 PM
Is not bad what ar u saying there..diversification..:D...but..if i/we remember well, the tiger replace panther because of doctrine...what u put in doctrine to replace?
I tought it'll be OP because i try not to denigrate the Force power and the prestige of "Saint" Tiger:))...like u.. for example :)).joke;) good idee seriously! Devs'll decide that:D

King tiger
U know that was replaced with Jagdtiger...maybe with reason to insert here in ostheer...i don't know:-??...that tank inspire fear and "hard to kill"..Nashorn is..."cabriolette";))
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 18, 2011, 12:39:07 PM
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT DONE!

Dude gotta change my Signatur to this :P.

I'm doing this too! XD
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on April 18, 2011, 12:47:46 PM
Don't touch my Panther:))
More Tigers it seem to OP...and Panther is a good tank. What u can say about Panther II? Panther II vs T34-85 :>?

Nashorn
This is the Big Brother of Sturer and Marder. We allready have Marders, so next "born" is Sturer Emil...

Why bother to include new units if you can put all units from Wehr+PE and just change skins/adjust combat values?

I like Panther too, but I'm not looking forward to see it in Ostheer. What about making a Tiger which will have same combat data as Panther? Would it be ok? Panther model inside Tiger skin. And honestly I don't know where it come from that Tiger is OP, because there is no problem to decrease some of its values if this was the problem.


Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S. on April 18, 2011, 01:11:28 PM
ja das ubersetzer!
Der Übersetzer ;)
Sind sie ein Grammar Nazi?
Heir, bin ich. Was ist mit Ihnen?

:D :D

Regarding Army Elite Troops:

I'd like to add that we don't really need another King Tiger in my opinion. I'd much rather like to see some sort of ability which exchanges tanks/vehicles instead to more "elite" versions or adding veterancy status on build. Like replacing StuG III with Jagdpanzers, or something like that. Or Marder II starting at vet 2 or whatever. Of course with adjusted, higher costs.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 18, 2011, 05:27:59 PM
[...]

Regarding Nashorn: it is still better than remodelled King Tiger... if devs have new model of KT why don't they just replace the present model in Terror doctr. of Wehr? It would be better solution.
Because everyone decided to get the Tiger Ace as KT replacement :). And we think a reward unit should bring a unique feeling and gameplay, not only a skin change.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: wordsmith on April 18, 2011, 05:48:24 PM
Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

There is always way around :)
Besides PzIV is far more symbol of eastern front than Panther and I haven't seen it included. Or SS troops (with different name o.c.) over Fallschirmjaeger troops.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 18, 2011, 06:00:00 PM
Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on April 18, 2011, 07:39:48 PM
Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

It'd be true if EF only included Ostheer and Soviets....but includes WH and PE. As such its more about delivering a different faction than it is about the 'must have units'...well...that's my opinion anyways
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GSmirlis on April 18, 2011, 07:46:15 PM
Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

It'd be true if EF only included Ostheer and Soviets....but includes WH and PE. As such its more about delivering a different faction than it is about the 'must have units'...well...that's my opinion anyways


-1 No man! EF is super wow because it includes them all!!! :D
Thats my opinion
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 18, 2011, 07:46:43 PM
Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

It'd be true if EF only included Ostheer and Soviets....but includes WH and PE. As such its more about delivering a different faction than it is about the 'must have units'...well...that's my opinion anyways
Let's hope this works, otherwise will be changed in the beta ;D.

@Wordsmith
About the Nashorn to replace OH's KT... Nah, there are other places where it could fit ;).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on April 18, 2011, 07:53:12 PM
I would say that the Panther and Tiger are more suited to the Ostheer than Wehrmacht/Panzer Elite for the reasons Lord Rommel stated. So if only 1 army is going to have them, it should be the Ostheer. But since you aren't going to remove anything from the relic armies (nor should you), that ain't gonna happen.

So basically:
Quote
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
Simple as that.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 18, 2011, 10:01:53 PM
I like Panther and Tiger too :D! Tiger is a symbol, true!
I was thinking at Panther II to make some diference between Wehr/PE and Ostheer.
My problem is that i would like to play with Elephant but same time i'm looking for Sturer Emil...
I don't know..i'm like a stupid kid who can't choose between 2 toys..i wanna both of them:D!!!
I know that Elephant is a legend but i find it a little "ugly"..is a house on wheels...
but powerfull..has an 88mm and 20mm thick armour:> . Enough to destroy Su-85/Su-100 :-?
The Sturer Emil has beautiful proportions, more beautiful than Marder I ( I find Marder II ugly too),
and is more powerfull...128mm :X:X:X...

What i'm trying to say...replace Marder II with Elephant and put in doctrine the Sturer Emil > 2 pieces...
2 was in their history too...and if u lose them (u r a loser then)...another 2 u never receive...just 2 pls..
or find u devs something to add them somewhere:-??
These tanks deserve to be protected on the battlefield...not Marders II..

It sound like a pray to God =))


Excuse my bad english:(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 18, 2011, 10:04:07 PM
Nope. Elefant will be a doctrinal tank destroyer. About the Panther II... don't think that will be implemented. Perhaps could work as an option if the Tiger thingy doesn't works as supposed, but as this unit wasn't built in ww2...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 18, 2011, 10:26:43 PM
If you're not the who you love, then love the who you're with! OK..but dress him with a nice skin;)

Post Merge: April 18, 2011, 10:30:18 PM
put in a "with" somewhere..i forgot it..
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ghost on April 18, 2011, 10:35:06 PM
I know that Elephant is a legend but i find it a little "ugly"..is a house on wheels...
but powerfull..has an 88mm and 20mm thick armour:> . Enough to destroy Su-85/Su-100 :-?
[...]
What i'm trying to say...replace Marder II with Elephant and put in doctrine the Sturer Emil > 2 pieces...[...]
you mean 200mm armor  ;D
there is no point in adding elefant as a regular unit. it would destroy balance unless you make it weak enough which would not be very clever (200mm armor is quite a lot and an 88mm gun is good as well)...it is too strong for a regular unit -> like blackbishop said: doctrine unit
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on April 18, 2011, 10:43:32 PM
Tiger II in OH doctrine sounds quite disturbing, but I think it's totally OK. Devs clearly said, that Fortress Army Troops are about getting encircled and rescured. KT seems to be perfect "rolling bunker" and breaking through enemy lines. I'm fine with it, because while playing Terror Doctrine I'll use Tiger Ace ( who is far more cool than KT).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Desert_Fox on April 18, 2011, 10:44:50 PM
Panther II was never builded, only its projects exist, and you must know that the prototype can't be implemented in EF. ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on April 18, 2011, 10:47:31 PM
while playing Terror Doctrine I'll use Tiger Ace ( who is far more cool than KT).
But... The Königstiger replaced the Tiger Ace. How can you use the Tiger Ace? ???
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on April 18, 2011, 10:48:07 PM
Reward unit that devs promised us  :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 18, 2011, 10:51:36 PM
Yes, u've right;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: delmar77 on April 19, 2011, 08:21:30 AM
Tiger Ace return!!!
Elephant IS beatiful,,,, smashing all

Batle of KursK whitH Elephant, Tiger and Panther,, it is AXIOMATIC
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 19, 2011, 08:45:23 AM
I liked original tiger ace better than KT ne wayz.  :) Its still in the SP demo too I think

along with tons of other broken stuff
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Nubrannosaurus on April 19, 2011, 04:04:04 PM
I'm going to make some constructive criticism, not because I want to bash this mod, but because I feel it's important for anyone and everyone to impart their opinions, all for the greater glory of this mod. 

Luftwaffe Recon Command:  The only variation that makes this different than America's Recon ability is that the ability is unit-dependent.  That is, it requires a unit on the field to allow this ability to function.  I like that it's different and it certainly has different implications in the game, but at its core it is the same ability as America's Recon ability.  I understand it's usefulness, especially to allow Brandenburger to infiltrate behind enemy lines, but how is that 'ability combo' any different than performing Recon + Paratroopers with America?  It seems exactly the same, unless I'm missing something. 

Branderburger: Going along with the point above, these seem just like the other paratrooper-types (Fallschirmjagers and Paratroopers) in the game.  Hopefully their equipment differentiates them, but their implementation is the same as America's Paratroopers.
The Panzer Elite have Fallschirmjagers, which cannot paradrop into combat but instead can be deployed into a vacant house -- a key difference between Panzer Elite and America.  If the Ostheer are going to have paratroopers of some sort, shouldn't they strive to act differently than the Panzer Elite and America?

EDIT Did not realize this is a 2-man squad, I misread it as two squads.  I feel better about this already, despite it still having the same air-drop mechanic.  2-man elite squads have exciting mechanical and thematic possibilities.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to make these quick points, interested in hearing anyone's thoughts.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Tico_1990 on April 19, 2011, 05:35:29 PM
If I read one of the earlier comments properly, then the brandenburgers will be more of a disturbance unit (like the funkwagen) instead of like a fighting unit, that would differentiate them.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: vonklaus on April 19, 2011, 05:39:57 PM
I wish people wouldn't criticizes heavily used historical units as being copies of others. Brandenburgers I would assume would be the most elite unit in the game other than maybe the Soviet Elite Sniper. I would also assume that these 2 guys could take out about any other infantry squad 1 on 1. Also if they could implement some sort of confusion ability (like the story already posted) many Bradenburgers could speak Russia so fluently as to fool Russian Officers (dozen of written examples that started at the beginning of Barbarossa, they were used to secure bridges right under the noses of Soviet border guards.)

As for Foreign Troops
The Finns had a nice AT Rifle that latter in the war was made into an automatic version. Would be good at hurting lighter allied vehicles and tanks but not so much the heavy armor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39)

Italians would be nice with SMGs, also an Italian Motorcycle group would be accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38)

Hungary had a Panzerschrek on crack that is regarded as the best shoulder launched at weapon of WW2.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hu&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitiahungarorum.extra.hu%2F1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hu&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitiahungarorum.extra.hu%2F1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html) (sorry google hungarian translation)

I would let the Romanians fill the role of the standard riflemen of the foreign call ins as they don't have the sexy weapons of the other nations but they did bring the 2nd most men of any axis nation in the invasion of Russia, so not to have them would be inaccurate. Spanish volunteer squad and Slovakians should also eventually be options.


Tanks for Hungarians I would recommend the Turan and the Nimrod 40mm flak tank. The Finns main armor would be a Stug but it would be able to ambush to differentiate, and the Finns were experts with there Stugs and had excellent kills to lose ratio with them. The Finns could also have a capture T-34. Romanians used the Renault so that could just be reskinned. Italian Sevemonte assualt gun would be there armor which.

If you end up dropping any of the abilites I highly recommend for historical purposes a Kubelwagon or Kradschutzen call in.
I really wish we could get a Kubelwagon and some proper Kradschutzen. It would be nice to have a light cheap vehicle that might not do much damage but were good at suppressing. Although not effective latter in the war, early war or early game these units would be useful and feel very authentic. The Wehrmacht bike is such a tool.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 19, 2011, 07:55:17 PM
I'm going to make some constructive criticism, not because I want to bash this mod, but because I feel it's important for anyone and everyone to impart their opinions, all for the greater glory of this mod. 

Luftwaffe Recon Command:  The only variation that makes this different than America's Recon ability is that the ability is unit-dependent.  That is, it requires a unit on the field to allow this ability to function.  I like that it's different and it certainly has different implications in the game, but at its core it is the same ability as America's Recon ability.  I understand it's usefulness, especially to allow Brandenburger to infiltrate behind enemy lines, but how is that 'ability combo' any different than performing Recon + Paratroopers with America?  It seems exactly the same, unless I'm missing something. 
Well, to me sounds the same, as is not implemented yet don't know if will work as US Recon Run. At least Ostheer doesn't have off-map arty XD.

Branderburger: Going along with the point above, these seem just like the other paratrooper-types (Fallschirmjagers and Paratroopers) in the game.  Hopefully their equipment differentiates them, but their implementation is the same as America's Paratroopers.
The Panzer Elite have Fallschirmjagers, which cannot paradrop into combat but instead can be deployed into a vacant house -- a key difference between Panzer Elite and America.  If the Ostheer are going to have paratroopers of some sort, shouldn't they strive to act differently than the Panzer Elite and America?

---------------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to make these quick points, interested in hearing anyone's thoughts.
I don't think this has anything wrong. I cannot think of a new way to get them on the field other than falls-like or airborne-like. Partisans also use Falls mechanism to get in and i don't think that fits them and probably will be seen as lazy(like some users might think of the current system as well). Besides, looks like Brandenburgers will be a two-man squad unlike paratroopers.

I don't think you will use brandenburguers to fight like falls/airborne/commandos. They should be quite resilant due to being doctrinal but not Rambo. Perhaps Scorched Earth fans will love them :P.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Nubrannosaurus on April 19, 2011, 11:12:44 PM
I edited the above.  I misread it originally and thought two squads were dropped in, not a single 2-man squad.  This has much more potential as a 2-man squad.  I like the above idea mentioning fluency in Russian and/or cloaking or at least something that disguises them.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 19, 2011, 11:38:36 PM
I edited the above.  I misread it originally and thought two squads were dropped in, not a single 2-man squad.  This has much more potential as a 2-man squad.  I like the above idea mentioning fluency in Russian and/or cloaking or at least something that disguises them.
You can bet it that will be an unique unit ;D!!

I just talked with Dragon and said that Storch Run won't work as(or be like) US Recon Run...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 19, 2011, 11:50:09 PM
I doubt, it can be implemented, but if they could dress up in the enemy uniform (timed ability) and appear to the enemy as a unit of his own color, only being vulnerable to force-fire, that would be interesting.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Paciat on April 19, 2011, 11:57:09 PM
I doubt, it can be implemented, but if they could dress up in the enemy uniform (timed ability) and appear to the enemy as a unit of his own color, only being vulnerable to force-fire, that would be interesting.
I dont like the who pushes the most buttons wins idea. Nor a game where you dress up. :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 20, 2011, 12:01:09 AM
What I mean is your own units don't auto-aim each other, so if you were able to spot these, you would have to specifically order your troops to fire at them.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on April 20, 2011, 12:04:59 AM
Interesting idea, IJoe... Also, i would LOVE to play Dress-Up in Company Of Heroes! :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 20, 2011, 12:25:56 AM
purse swingin sally :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: kakatrot on April 20, 2011, 10:11:46 AM
so how about reinforcing  those 88's  ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 20, 2011, 10:17:33 AM
so how about reinforcing  those 88's  ;D
read 2.7 changelog
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GSmirlis on April 20, 2011, 04:07:32 PM
I wish people wouldn't criticizes heavily used historical units as being copies of others. Brandenburgers I would assume would be the most elite unit in the game other than maybe the Soviet Elite Sniper. I would also assume that these 2 guys could take out about any other infantry squad 1 on 1. Also if they could implement some sort of confusion ability (like the story already posted) many Bradenburgers could speak Russia so fluently as to fool Russian Officers (dozen of written examples that started at the beginning of Barbarossa, they were used to secure bridges right under the noses of Soviet border guards.)

As for Foreign Troops
The Finns had a nice AT Rifle that latter in the war was made into an automatic version. Would be good at hurting lighter allied vehicles and tanks but not so much the heavy armor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39)

Italians would be nice with SMGs, also an Italian Motorcycle group would be accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38)

Hungary had a Panzerschrek on crack that is regarded as the best shoulder launched at weapon of WW2.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hu&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitiahungarorum.extra.hu%2F1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hu&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitiahungarorum.extra.hu%2F1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html) (sorry google hungarian translation)

I would let the Romanians fill the role of the standard riflemen of the foreign call ins as they don't have the sexy weapons of the other nations but they did bring the 2nd most men of any axis nation in the invasion of Russia, so not to have them would be inaccurate. Spanish volunteer squad and Slovakians should also eventually be options.


Tanks for Hungarians I would recommend the Turan and the Nimrod 40mm flak tank. The Finns main armor would be a Stug but it would be able to ambush to differentiate, and the Finns were experts with there Stugs and had excellent kills to lose ratio with them. The Finns could also have a capture T-34. Romanians used the Renault so that could just be reskinned. Italian Sevemonte assualt gun would be there armor which.

If you end up dropping any of the abilites I highly recommend for historical purposes a Kubelwagon or Kradschutzen call in.
I really wish we could get a Kubelwagon and some proper Kradschutzen. It would be nice to have a light cheap vehicle that might not do much damage but were good at suppressing. Although not effective latter in the war, early war or early game these units would be useful and feel very authentic. The Wehrmacht bike is such a tool.

+1 but the Romanians in Stalingrant were alot! EF has to add them!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on April 20, 2011, 05:50:36 PM
I doubt, it can be implemented, but if they could dress up in the enemy uniform (timed ability) and appear to the enemy as a unit of his own color, only being vulnerable to force-fire, that would be interesting.
I dont like the who pushes the most buttons wins idea. Nor a game where you dress up. :P

In game terms,what you could do, is give them cloak and normal movement, but make them so they can be detected at twice the distance a sniper would. That way you represent them being ignored  and move around freely, unless someone gets close to them and realize they're germans
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on April 20, 2011, 06:06:53 PM
I don't think being disguised as trees is as fun as being disguised as the enemy. :(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: PanzerWilly on April 20, 2011, 06:43:57 PM
Hmmm, I notice that the foreign support tanks. I don't know......I felt that foreign tanks that actually used in the Eastern Front are made up of lighter tanks that is, sorry to say this: soft and squishy. I wish that it was either the Czeh tanks or Hungarian or Romanians tanks. French.......no cause I did not hear much of French tank used in the Eastern Front, maybe not used at all. I like to see tanks such as the Panzer 38t and 35t, which I play in Theater Of War, it look soft and squishy but used tactically it was even superior than some Axis tank at that time. Flak tanks also a welcome  ;D Especially Flakpanzer I, or Mobelwagen.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ettore Muti on April 20, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
Hmmm, I notice that the foreign support tanks. I don't know......I felt that foreign tanks that actually used in the Eastern Front are made up of lighter tanks that is, sorry to say this: soft and squishy. I wish that it was either the Czeh tanks or Hungarian or Romanians tanks. French.......no cause I did not hear much of French tank used in the Eastern Front, maybe not used at all. I like to see tanks such as the Panzer 38t and 35t, which I play in Theater Of War, it look soft and squishy but used tactically it was even superior than some Axis tank at that time. Flak tanks also a welcome  ;D Especially Flakpanzer I, or Mobelwagen.

Some B1 and Somua were used during the war in the eastern front,might be fun to have a B1 under your command.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 20, 2011, 07:36:14 PM
Some B1 and Somua were used during the war in the eastern front,might be fun to have a B1 under your command.

This is nice, because an other mod (don't remember its correct name) has created both the Somua and the B1.

Personally, I would love to see Panzer 38 (t). That would be highscore, bingo and jackpot. :D

EDIT: @devs:

 - Which foreign tanks will be included?

 - Will the next update be in the middle of the month again and what will it be about?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HasTler on April 21, 2011, 06:20:20 PM
Emil, Panther II, and the mouse were prototypes that should not be engaged in ostherr. T-38 were really cool as a light support function ...

ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 21, 2011, 06:26:43 PM
500 vehicles...
Then that battle must've been mostly fought by that elephant, and a couple of tigers...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 21, 2011, 06:56:58 PM
Emil, Panther II, and the mouse were prototypes that should not be engaged in ostherr. T-38 were really cool as a light support function ...

ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D
I think Sturer Emil has more chances than Panther II or maus... heck even Panther II has more chances than maus :-\. The problem with the maus besides being a prototype is that is a fail prototype and breaks every CoH balance rule now and then, it's not a unit that you can tweak to make it "balanced". I don't know why many users like the Maus :-X.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: vadlama on April 21, 2011, 07:21:40 PM
Emil, Panther II, and the mouse were prototypes that should not be engaged in ostherr. T-38 were really cool as a light support function ...

ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D
I think Sturer Emil has more chances than Panther II or maus... heck even Panther II has more chances than maus :-\. The problem with the maus besides being a prototype is that is a fail prototype and breaks every CoH balance rule now and then, it's not a unit that you can tweak to make it "balanced". I don't know why many users like the Maus :-X.
because a lot of user play World of Tanks :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 21, 2011, 07:23:40 PM
Sturer Emil was an experiment is true. Two vehicles (named Max and Moritz) were built, both of which served on the Eastern Front. One vehicle was destroyed, the other captured at Stalingrad in January 1943, with 22 kill marks painted on the barrel.
Hitler would  be order about 100 tanks hunters Emil Sturer type, but due to limited resources and events from the front, the project was abandoned.(wiki)

Post Merge: April 21, 2011, 08:42:47 PM
It seems balanced. :)
I doubt there will be achance for a 2 CP tank (Toldi) but some foreign ACs would be nice.
(http://forum.valka.cz/files/tatra-oa-30_1cs.jpg)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Italy/Ita-Autoblinda-AB40-1.JPG)
Both look good!! Especially Tatra!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 21, 2011, 11:10:06 PM
^^just what axis needs more useless and gimmicky AC's and HT's  :P


ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D
Thats sounds like false propoganda  :P but its irrelevant anyway. What pride is their in kill/death ratios if you're defeated? none
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HerrVoss on April 22, 2011, 06:04:44 AM
I am late on this conversation but what the heck. I AM IN FAVOR OF THE KING TIGER!! Please keep in the Ostheer. I would love the Nashorn to replace the Marder II along with the Tiger I replacing the Panther. My final request is that you include some kind Anti-Tank emplacement in the defense doctrine. Thanks and reply if you can.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-279-0950-09%2C_Russland%2C_Jagdpanzer_Nashorn-Hornisse.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-279-0950-09%2C_Russland%2C_Jagdpanzer_Nashorn-Hornisse.jpg)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 22, 2011, 06:40:54 AM
include some kind Anti-Tank emplacement in the defense doctrine.

but on the eastern front the germans were mostly racing across the countryside and the only time they had to dig in was in city fighting. in which case the schrek was sufficient for AT  ???
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GodlikeDennis on April 22, 2011, 06:55:21 AM
OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 22, 2011, 07:17:40 AM
OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.
Not as afaik. But perhaps they will, if the ketten-like thingy is done.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Rommel123 on April 22, 2011, 05:12:08 PM
OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.
Not as afaik. But perhaps they will, if the ketten-like thingy is done.

Ad some captured viechels like Capped T-34s capped Pz4s and some thing of the sort ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Capt. Malashenko on April 22, 2011, 08:36:44 PM
Great update, cant wait to see them in action   :D
I just have few concerns;
-Brandenburger 2 man squad - I hope they will have some durability vs snipers (like KHC) otherwise, it will be too easy to kill`em`off.
-As much as I love Tigers and King Tigers, it seams a lil`to much to see them in yet another Axis faction, Tigers should at least have some ability or specialty to differentiate them from Wehr Tigers,  and KT should be placed with Elephant, so when you call the ability one of them (random choice) comes out.
-Improved Communications - you could add some small muni or fuel bonus for HQ`s in isolated territory, to invoke that "use everything you have" concept.
-Prioritised Weapons - since units (and the ability) still cost resources, perhaps this ability could remove production time all together for that short period of time.

//Friendly suggestions //

#Interesting, in all 3 doctrines there`s no off-map artillery  :o (it would be nice to have some mention of Heavy Siege Howitzers like Czechoslovak 24 cm Haubitze 39 or Austrian  305 mm Škoda Mörser M. 11 ).
#Inf and vehicle ability cool-down restart . Just something to think about. Greetings from the front  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Troynl on April 22, 2011, 08:40:42 PM
Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: BurroDiablo on April 22, 2011, 09:03:13 PM
OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.

No they can't. If we add in some static AT weapons, it'll be something of our own, like a doctrinal cruciform Pak-43 (don't hold me to that)...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on April 22, 2011, 09:39:35 PM
Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
Always the Maus xDDD

I would be so happy when i had not to read this word here xDDD
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 22, 2011, 09:56:27 PM
Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
No one said we are going to replace the Elefant in Ostheer. Elefant > Sturer Emil. But Sturer Emil would fit as reward unit for the Elefant.

Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
Always the Maus xDDD

I would be so happy when i had not to read this word here xDDD
+1
There's no need to discuss anything about the maus, that tank will never be added as regular unit for Ostheer and perhaps won't be in the OH campaign as well.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GATHRAWN on April 22, 2011, 10:00:02 PM

//Friendly suggestions //

#Interesting, in all 3 doctrines there`s no off-map artillery  :o (it would be nice to have some mention of Heavy Siege Howitzers like Czechoslovak 24 cm Haubitze 39 or Austrian  305 mm Škoda Mörser M. 11 ).
#Inf and vehicle ability cool-down restart . Just something to think about. Greetings from the front  ;)

that seems like it would be good, the eastern front had the largest artillery of the war. the two possibiites that realy strikeme as excellent are, the Schwerer Gustav an 80 cm K (E) railway siege gun, and the Karl-Gerät a self propelled 60 cm mortar. this could be a sort of v-1 like ability heavy damage but long reload time and high cost. it would be interesting to see them as a adition to or reward for the doctorines.
 as well i haven't seen any aa units for the OH something like the Kugelblitz would be interesting. only 5 were built and appearently fought in berlin.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 22, 2011, 10:07:06 PM

//Friendly suggestions //

#Interesting, in all 3 doctrines there`s no off-map artillery  :o (it would be nice to have some mention of Heavy Siege Howitzers like Czechoslovak 24 cm Haubitze 39 or Austrian  305 mm Škoda Mörser M. 11 ).
#Inf and vehicle ability cool-down restart . Just something to think about. Greetings from the front  ;)

that seems like it would be good, the eastern front had the largest artillery of the war. the two possibiites that realy strikeme as excellent are, the Schwerer Gustav an 80 cm K (E) railway siege gun, and the Karl-Gerät a self propelled 60 cm mortar. this could be a sort of v-1 like ability heavy damage but long reload time and high cost. it would be interesting to see them as a adition to or reward for the doctorines.
 as well i haven't seen any aa units for the OH something like the Kugelblitz would be interesting. only 5 were built and appearently fought in berlin.
yeah why add something when theres was like 2 build during the war and only one used? ::)
largest and most by a lot, artillery on eastern front was Soviet instead of german. thats why Soviet has so much arty and ostheer has none



Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
Always the Maus xDDD

I would be so happy when i had not to read this word here xDDD
+1
There's no need to discuss anything about the maus, that tank will never be added as regular unit for Ostheer and perhaps won't be in the OH campaign as well.
+1  :-X
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: BurroDiablo on April 22, 2011, 10:42:40 PM
Ostheer has Wespe, Panzerwerfer and they may get a 10.5 cm leFH 18/40 since I think there's a good animated model kicking about somewhere and it would be a shame to waste it.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: delmar77 on April 23, 2011, 07:29:51 AM
google translate ok? not mimimimimi >:(
I believe that to write on this topic, you must read the previous posts. For noobster and vets ... There are questions that are now useless.
Maus, details of obscure units ... well ....
LET'S DO HOMEWORK AND READ old threads .. please!

Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Raider217 on April 23, 2011, 07:58:28 AM
Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
No one said we are going to replace the Elefant in Ostheer. Elefant > Sturer Emil. But Sturer Emil would fit as reward unit for the Elefant.
Nashorn > Sturer Emil however
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on April 23, 2011, 10:05:10 AM
Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
No one said we are going to replace the Elefant in Ostheer. Elefant > Sturer Emil. But Sturer Emil would fit as reward unit for the Elefant.
Nashorn > Sturer Emil however
+1
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 23, 2011, 10:08:00 AM
Wait and see ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HomerSimpson on April 23, 2011, 10:18:41 AM
Hey EF Team and COH lovers all round the world!
Sorry if i repeating a already answered question but what will the next sneaky be about? greetings from germany!  :-*
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 23, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
Just use the elephant, not a prototype like the Sturer Emil.
ow and BTW: the Maus is Ugly, fat and to expensive if added.
No one said we are going to replace the Elefant in Ostheer. Elefant > Sturer Emil. But Sturer Emil would fit as reward unit for the Elefant.
Nashorn > Sturer Emil however
+1
-1 :))
Sturer Emil is more "violent" than Nashorn
128mm vs 88
just two tanks but one of them with 22 kills:>
20-25 Sturer would be destroy "another 500 tanks! Remember that about 20 tanks was destroyed to kill 500 enmey tanks...it;s some difference
I wonder if u can put as "reward vehicles" to replace the Elephant (with Elephant the prime tank)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 23, 2011, 11:40:18 AM
Quote
just two tanks but one of them with 22 kills:>

You just got it. Only two are not enough to create this vehicle from scratch, animate it, bring it ingame and so on. It's nearly like Maus, only two of them can't represent the army of a whole front of hundrets of miles. If you want it, do it yourself.
So simple answer: NO.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 23, 2011, 11:57:35 AM
Quote
just two tanks but one of them with 22 kills:>
So simple answer: NO.
Breath and relax man... I understand that u never replace Elephant with Sturer..it's clear..i just say it will be nice to be as "rewar vechicle"..just check it there and u can play with it..
It is a kind of strategy...i find Elephant good to ofensive...and Sturer good to defensive...everyone can select one of these tanks as his game style.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on April 23, 2011, 12:41:11 PM
Yes, but you see that there is no sense of including it except of eye candy. And what did you say about Elefant? Offensive? Huh?
If you would let the Elefant be the spearhead of an offensive, good luck. It's supposed to be like a mobile anti tank emplacement, so it's rather defensive and easy to outmaneuver.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 23, 2011, 01:00:57 PM
Yes, but you see that there is no sense of including it except of eye candy. And what did you say about Elefant? Offensive? Huh?
If you would let the Elefant be the spearhead of an offensive, good luck. It's supposed to be like a mobile anti tank emplacement, so it's rather defensive and easy to outmaneuver.

Well said! The Elephant can be offensive(with some support) because he is more resistant have 200mm armore full covered, right, than Sturer who is partially covered, with weacker armor, just range must be his advantage:-?..
Anyway, if that point of strategy is unimportant, u have right ..is just a waste of time..
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Troynl on April 23, 2011, 01:19:42 PM
do you have to do something to unlock the Sturer Emil?  ;D
dunno if possible but maby you can unlock it when you have ** kills with Elefant :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 23, 2011, 02:15:31 PM
Yes, but you see that there is no sense of including it except of eye candy. And what did you say about Elefant? Offensive? Huh?
If you would let the Elefant be the spearhead of an offensive, good luck. It's supposed to be like a mobile anti tank emplacement, so it's rather defensive and easy to outmaneuver.

Well said! The Elephant can be offensive(with some support) because he is more resistant have 200mm armore full covered, right, than Sturer who is partially covered, with weacker armor, just range must be his advantage:-?

What...?
Maxiking literally just said it shouldn't be used as an offensive weapon...
If it has 200mm+ armor on it of course it needs to be defensive, it would be too friggin slow to move at a good pace for an aggressive standpoint.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Raider217 on April 23, 2011, 02:33:40 PM
Nashorn - Elefant is a better mix. Sturer would in my opinion would work better as a replacement for KT (I would tick that straight away, I dont like the KT being reused)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: edeka009 on April 23, 2011, 09:17:20 PM
do you have to do something to unlock the Sturer Emil?  ;D
dunno if possible but maby you can unlock it when you have ** kills with Elefant :D
Is not bad what ar u saying there..but the "Balance" problems will born because then will be both tanks on the field:( and then u ar a "bad-bad fan boooy":))

Post Merge: April 23, 2011, 09:20:39 PM
i don't know...just saying...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Rikard Blixt on April 24, 2011, 01:08:57 AM
Hey EF Team and COH lovers all round the world!
Sorry if i repeating a already answered question but what will the next sneaky be about? greetings from germany!  :-*

Ohh, that's a sneaky thingy! I think you'll love it tho.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: alex_gh on April 28, 2011, 01:20:34 PM
apology for asking, how many update will necessary for the ostheer to be released??   ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on April 28, 2011, 01:46:13 PM
oh dear....

don't you see signatures?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Troynl on April 28, 2011, 03:57:40 PM
do you have to do something to unlock the Sturer Emil?  ;D
dunno if possible but maby you can unlock it when you have ** kills with Elefant :D
Is not bad what ar u saying there..but the "Balance" problems will born because then will be both tanks on the field:( and then u ar a "bad-bad fan boooy":))

I mean: you can build a Elephant. in 1 game, you killed 10 Tanks.
because you kiled 10 tanks with 1 Elephant you can replace the Elephant for the Sturer Emil in the nekst game :)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Raider217 on April 28, 2011, 05:06:17 PM
do you have to do something to unlock the Sturer Emil?  ;D
dunno if possible but maby you can unlock it when you have ** kills with Elefant :D
Is not bad what ar u saying there..but the "Balance" problems will born because then will be both tanks on the field:( and then u ar a "bad-bad fan boooy":))

I mean: you can build a Elephant. in 1 game, you killed 10 Tanks.
because you kiled 10 tanks with 1 Elephant you can replace the Elephant for the Sturer Emil in the nekst game :)
Same as the Tiger camo for blitzkrieg which requires you to complete the campaign to unlock it, no the challenge would have to be campaign related if its at all possible not through online matches be it vs human or comps
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Red_Stinger on April 28, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
 :P

A bit disappointed.

Tiger II with Henschel turret? Why? There is already a tiger II. Meh.
Plus I tought super armor were a pain to balance out!
Improved supply looks like very OP for a faction based on quality. Hope it won't be a problem.

Brandenburger looks like cool!
I've always dreamed about soviet paratroopers for breakthrough strategy, but these special really add a taste to Ostheer faction.  :)

Panzerkrieg effect should have belonged to breakthrough strategy though, as Wordsmith suggested a long time ago. Inspiring Speech is currently useless.  :P

Pictures are really great! These skin are awesome. Nothing less!  :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 28, 2011, 08:07:20 PM


Tiger II with Henschel turret? Why? There is already a tiger II. Meh.
Plus I tought super armor were a pain to balance out!
Improved supply looks like very OP for a faction based on quality. Hope it won't be a problem.

Panzerkrieg effect should have belonged to breakthrough strategy though, as Wordsmith suggested a long time ago. Inspiring Speech is currently useless.  :P


+1
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 28, 2011, 08:20:54 PM


Tiger II with Henschel turret? Why? There is already a tiger II. Meh.
Plus I tought super armor were a pain to balance out!
Improved supply looks like very OP for a faction based on quality. Hope it won't be a problem.

Panzerkrieg effect should have belonged to breakthrough strategy though, as Wordsmith suggested a long time ago. Inspiring Speech is currently useless.  :P


+1
Nah, Ostheer needs super tanks too and fits with the defensive doctrine :). Improved supply would have drawbacks as well, ofc.

Panzerkrieg was being saved for Ostheer, imo fits better to them.

We are reworking propaganda, we could check that too, if you can suggest something better and balanced why not? Currently is like a doctrinal sprint and iirc, once active troops doesn't get suppressed (don't remember if it's break suppression though). Could be better things to put? perhaps, is it useless? i don't think so.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on April 28, 2011, 08:26:13 PM
Inspiring speach should give offensive and defensive bonus', not just make you sprint. Like a Soviet heroic charge

and if you're not willing to give some kind of combat bonus to insipiring speech, atleast lower the cooldown
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on April 28, 2011, 08:32:35 PM
It's a 1 CP ability(let alone the first one of the tree), don't think that should have that kind of bonuses, it could turn the tide easily.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on April 28, 2011, 08:34:01 PM
+1 to Commissar, the cool-down is just killing it.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Red_Stinger on April 28, 2011, 10:38:06 PM

Nah, Ostheer needs super tanks too and fits with the defensive doctrine :). Improved supply would have drawbacks as well, ofc.

Panzerkrieg was being saved for Ostheer, imo fits better to them.

We are reworking propaganda, we could check that too, if you can suggest something better and balanced why not? Currently is like a doctrinal sprint and iirc, once active troops doesn't get suppressed (don't remember if it's break suppression though). Could be better things to put? perhaps, is it useless? i don't think so.

1) Yeah. Everyone is going to have an uber-tank. While I understand and respect the opinion of other  players, I find it boring to have already 3 uber tank for the axis, all the more so that this is an other Tiger II, let alone the turret.
I agree it fit with the doctrine though!

2)The fact that Panzerkrieg belong to Ostheer isn't shocking for me; I just find shocking that the breakthrough strategy still don't have a similar passive ability to propose, since the release.

The fact that Inspiring Speech is useless or not shouldn't be discussed here anyway; I've even created a specific topic in the red army section of forum a long time ago, but no one seem to be attracted (lol). And it's not like no one ever proposed something innovative and intelligent for soviet doctrine: I could again throw Wordsmith's suggestion on the board, but even since the release a lot of things have been suggested anyway, just search for it.


Just a quick question: can you dev manage to code the effect of foreign support tree doctrine?I mean, can you code in order to obtain a random foreign squad? Really?  :D

And lol for those who are complaining for the lack of a Maus. ::)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: vonklaus on April 30, 2011, 08:22:21 PM
wasn't the henschel turret better? I like the idea of a armor heavy command tree. The Soviets have some challenging tanks so to be able to matching IS2s and Cheap but good T34s on a big open map it would be nice to have tigers with a tiger II. Seems pretty bad ass to me. Although Id prefer a Kubelwagen or Motorcycle troops that dont suck and can suppress to anything else :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Versedhorison on May 01, 2011, 03:02:50 PM
wasn't the henschel turret better? I like the idea of a armor heavy command tree. The Soviets have some challenging tanks so to be able to matching IS2s and Cheap but good T34s on a big open map it would be nice to have tigers with a tiger II. Seems pretty bad ass to me. Although Id prefer a Kubelwagen or Motorcycle troops that dont suck and can suppress to anything else :P

The henchell turret was much better. It had thicker armour, it was easier to make, it had no shot trap and it was a smaller frontal target.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: HyperSniper999 on May 02, 2011, 12:58:39 AM
wasn't the henschel turret better? I like the idea of a armor heavy command tree. The Soviets have some challenging tanks so to be able to matching IS2s and Cheap but good T34s on a big open map it would be nice to have tigers with a tiger II. Seems pretty bad ass to me. Although Id prefer a Kubelwagen or Motorcycle troops that dont suck and can suppress to anything else :P
What does the Henschel look like?

The henchell turret was much better. It had thicker armour, it was easier to make, it had no shot trap and it was a smaller frontal target.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: TheReaper on May 03, 2011, 11:57:33 PM
Yes, but you see that there is no sense of including it except of eye candy. And what did you say about Elefant? Offensive? Huh?
If you would let the Elefant be the spearhead of an offensive, good luck. It's supposed to be like a mobile anti tank emplacement, so it's rather defensive and easy to outmaneuver.

Well said! The Elephant can be offensive(with some support) because he is more resistant have 200mm armore full covered, right, than Sturer who is partially covered, with weacker armor, just range must be his advantage:-?..
Anyway, if that point of strategy is unimportant, u have right ..is just a waste of time..
In the war, the Elephant was a failure. Big, slow and the first variants (the Ferdinands) doesn't got any defensive mg, so they were sitting ducks for soviet magnetic mines and AT weapons. It was effective in long distances and was heavier than a Tiger tank (!!!!). So it really a defensive, mobile 88 mm gun. Nashorn would be a great reward unit for the Elephant.  8)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on May 04, 2011, 01:50:13 AM
The other night on the history channel a german veteran who was a driver of a ferdinand on the eastern front said they were such an engineering disaster his engine caught fire just driving up a small hill.

superior german engineering huh? :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 04, 2011, 02:09:35 AM
I'd say more like lack of polish and testing due to being on the verge of defeat. ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on May 04, 2011, 02:29:05 AM
call it what ya want, were im from its called junk :P
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 04, 2011, 02:31:37 AM
 ::)...Just sayin'. ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on May 04, 2011, 02:32:18 AM
 ;Dme too ::)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ghost on May 04, 2011, 08:16:45 AM
The other night on the history channel a german veteran who was a driver of a ferdinand on the eastern front said they were such an engineering disaster his engine caught fire just driving up a small hill.

superior german engineering huh? :P
the ferdinands were rushed into battle without proper testing. just like panthers and tigers, because the germans thought these tanks were needed immediately. every new tank has weaknesses, that's why it is normally tested before it's sent into combat. if you decide to skip these tests -> failure ::)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Seeme on May 04, 2011, 12:44:05 PM
Panther wasn't that much of a failure.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on May 04, 2011, 01:10:22 PM
Only a failure from behind :P.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ghost on May 04, 2011, 02:34:31 PM
Panther wasn't that much of a failure.
i was referring to the battles when they first saw combat. e.g. ferdinands had weaknesses (poor mobility, tech problems, no mg) but were very effective vs. enemy tanks. i just wanted to say that you can't say XY was a failure because of its first engagement.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ruddersmarine on May 04, 2011, 11:39:15 PM

[/quote]i was referring to the battles when they first saw combat. e.g. ferdinands had weaknesses (poor mobility, tech problems, no mg) but were very effective vs. enemy tanks. i just wanted to say that you can't say XY was a failure because of its first engagement.
[/quote]

+ 1
loads of tanks had problems, the Panther was the most unreliable German tank of the war apart from the experimental tigers like the Sturmtiger. An interesting statistic i found about the panthers first combat 'out of 200 Panthers in the 4th Panzer Army 160 were out of action on the first day, nine days later only 43 were in German hands, the majority had broken down between railheads on the way to the front' The german tanks were best used defensively. e.g the only major german offensive in the west (the Bulge) was lead by Pz4's cos they were more reliable
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 05, 2011, 03:10:10 AM
That is not actually true. I have read plenty things written by German Tankers that have said the Panther was as /or more reliable than the Panzer 4.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Paladin88 on May 05, 2011, 03:13:57 AM
loads of tanks had problems, the Panther was the most unreliable German tank of the war apart from the experimental tigers like the Sturmtiger.

True, but the Panther was more reliable than the Tiger... I'm sorry, I can't listen unless you mention the Tiger's down points at least.

Yes, German tanks are best used defensively!

That is not actually true. I have read plenty things written by German Tankers that have said the Panther was as /or more reliable than the Panzer 4.

+1  :)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GodlikeDennis on May 05, 2011, 05:41:08 AM
I heard the panther was more reliable than even the P4 but it was far harder to change parts/repair when it did break down?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Paladin88 on May 05, 2011, 05:50:37 AM
I heard the panther was more reliable than even the P4 but it was far harder to change parts/repair when it did break down?

"tick"

The German tanks were best used defensively. e.g the only major German offensive in the west (the Bulge) was lead by Pz4's cos they were more reliable

Has it every occured to you that they may not have had many of them available at the time. Remember that there was the red tide in the east, couldn't it just been that they couldn't spare any for the west?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on May 05, 2011, 07:00:05 PM
Reliability depends a lot on the availability of spare parts. A massive reliable supply structure makes even an M1 Abrams 'reliable'
Panther was a more complex machine meaning there were usually more things that you need to have a spare part for and at a time where German Industrial capacity was pummeled to the ground....it was a bit harder to get them.
That doesn't make the tank itself unreliable. On the contrary, german tanks in combat would take more punishment before suffering mechanical failures.

Panther 'unreliability' was more of a myth based on the poor showing of the very first 200 tanks produced and pushed into combat in Kursk before the issues had been ironed out
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 05, 2011, 07:08:48 PM
Haha, sounds like the Xbox 360. ;D >:(
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on May 05, 2011, 07:56:11 PM
@Zersto:rer
I wouldn't call almost seven brigades forming number of vehicles' rather poor performance a myth, - that's safe enough to form a firm opinion about a tank. I'm not arguing it was, in fact, improved later on though.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on May 05, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
200 first production tanks that hadn't been put through the tests enough to clear the most basic 'teething' problems and pushed into the most vigorous/demanding tank battle ever...I'd call that the stupidest thing ever and certainly where the 'myth' came from. Anyone claiming the panthers were unreliable refers to that example.
Soviets praised and valued Panthers above any other tank which is why they kept captured ones in special units, regularly serviced and given to the best tank crews as reward. That's not a credit even given to Tigers...anyways....its all rather irrelevant to the game :)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on May 05, 2011, 08:41:04 PM
Let's put it this way: the debut model was such a failure, that it unfairly passed its reputation onto ones, produced later on. But its poor reliability is certainly not a myth.
Panther, when it was improved, became a very well-made, and quite reliable "medium" tank, though it's rather to be included it into the heavy category, fallowing the common sense, where it surely doesn't take the first prize.
Not that it means anything anyway.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ruddersmarine on May 05, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
+1
Another reason for all German tanks decreased reliability later in the war  was the need to use a mixture of petrol and ammonia to increase the range because of shortages, this wrecked the engines and filters after prolonged use, and as Zerstorer says if they didn't have spare parts they had to blow up the tanks.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ghost on May 05, 2011, 11:32:34 PM
1. soviet soldiers were told to use captured panthers whenever possible
2. while those first panthers were rushed into battle and had tech problems they still showed some of their potential. the version G of the panther is considered to be the best medium WW2 tank of all
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Versedhorison on May 07, 2011, 04:09:46 AM
All of the German Panzers rushed into battle had problems on debut. Afterwards most reliability problems were fixed but the leading cause of tiger deaths was either break downs or air attacks.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on May 07, 2011, 04:22:21 AM
All of the German Panzers rushed into battle had problems on debut. Afterwards most reliability problems were fixed but the leading cause of tiger deaths was either break downs or air attacks.
One should never underestimate/overestimate the properties of particular model of a tank.
As an example: there's a relatively large number of german tank aces compared to that of soviet, or allied moreover. Why is it? A dumb person would suggest, that germans were simply "better with tank training". However, this is absolutely untrue - when T-34s were a sort of "tigers" of the time (that would be 1941-42), there was a soviet tank ace, who scored over 50 german tanks (let alone ACs and the rest of 'em) in just two months.
So, surely german tanks were more viable, and yielded more firepower, but one should think of it that way: you can build ten good tanks, or two superb ones. What would you prefer? - This is all about balancing between production time + resource cost + upkeep and repair issues / battle effectiveness.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 07, 2011, 05:18:55 AM
If that is the case, then have you ever heard of Otto Carius? His Tiger's went up against ISU-152s and IS-2s. Both of those have better armor, armament, and better engines. You cannot say that the tiger was "superior" in that instance. The crews though, yes.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on May 07, 2011, 05:35:08 AM
That's just ONE man, so it absolutely of no representative value at all, you know.
Besides, that's just late war looser-fascist propaganda, AFAIK. The only way he could do it in RL (if he ever actually did) is to destroy all those vehicles when those were out of battle stance (i.e. transported via railroad, on a platform, or something alike).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 07, 2011, 05:51:30 AM
He was an example, and he's not the only one. There have been plenty of times when such things happened. And it is not propaganda. I read books written by soldiers and tankers who have seen it themselves. And the tanks that T-34 (w/50 kills) you mentioned was most likely battling tanks like the Panzer 38(t) and the like, which is nothing like a T-34 compared to a Tiger. If I am wrong in this(previous sentence) tell me.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on May 07, 2011, 10:23:03 AM
If that is the case, then have you ever heard of Otto Carius? His Tiger's went up against ISU-152s and IS-2s. Both of those have better armor, armament, and better engines. You cannot say that the tiger was "superior" in that instance. The crews though, yes.

When u would have read (or talk with) Otto Carius u could know that he had surprised this IS-2 and ISU-152 tanks ;) They were part of the 1st russian tank brigade Josef Stalin. After destroying a StuG-Abteilung at a small town near Daugavpils (Dünaburg) the russian tank brigade make a rest. During this rest Carius and a second Tiger rushed in full speed into this town and destroyed IS-2 and other tanks by surprise and from very low distance. Some historians call this battle "Villers Bocage of the east". Carius got the knight cross for this action.
So it was a special situation u cant use for common battle situations ^^

But in fact we can discuss till doomsday here. Fact is - like Zerstörer said - its all irrelevant to the game  ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on May 07, 2011, 02:09:56 PM
"Villers-Bocage of the East" - this is going to be my next map  :D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 07, 2011, 04:36:24 PM
If that is the case, then have you ever heard of Otto Carius? His Tiger's went up against ISU-152s and IS-2s. Both of those have better armor, armament, and better engines. You cannot say that the tiger was "superior" in that instance. The crews though, yes.

When u would have read (or talk with) Otto Carius u could know that he had surprised this IS-2 and ISU-152 tanks ;) They were part of the 1st russian tank brigade Josef Stalin. After destroying a StuG-Abteilung at a small town near Daugavpils (Dünaburg) the russian tank brigade make a rest. During this rest Carius and a second Tiger rushed in full speed into this town and destroyed IS-2 and other tanks by surprise and from very low distance. Some historians call this battle "Villers Bocage of the east". Carius got the knight cross for this action.
So it was a special situation u cant use for common battle situations ^^

But in fact we can discuss till doomsday here. Fact is - like Zerstörer said - its all irrelevant to the game  ;)

Yes I had read of that, but that wasn't what I was talking about actually. I was talking about other times, in battle. I was just trying to prove to IJoe that it wasn't so much the vehicle, like he said, but the crew. Plenty of Tigers with idiots for commander were slaughtered. But I will stop discussing this, It is as you say irreverent to the game. This is probably something to be discussed on the history forum(there is one right?)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 07, 2011, 05:46:34 PM
See here:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?board=7.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?board=7.0)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on May 07, 2011, 06:01:48 PM
"Villers-Bocage of the East" - this is going to be my next map  :D

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=488.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=488.0)  ;)

I just have to rework splats and all this little detail stuff ^^
All in all this map is finished by a long time.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: cephalos on May 07, 2011, 07:03:18 PM
...
why it's not released?  :( another time maybe...
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 07, 2011, 07:10:39 PM
See here:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?board=7.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?board=7.0)
Thanks!
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: 777mais777 on May 09, 2011, 12:55:02 AM
I think, this is intresting:
http://tankkk.narod.ru/voina.html (http://tankkk.narod.ru/voina.html)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 09, 2011, 12:58:38 AM
I think it would be more interesting if it wasn't in such a cool language. ;) Think you could give us unfortunate Englishers the gist of it?
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: IJoe on May 09, 2011, 01:05:28 AM
I think it would be more interesting if it wasn't in such a cool language. ;) Think you could give us unfortunate Englishers the gist of it?
That's my friendly advice, and suggestion:
Use some translator tool. I wouldn't expect anyone to spend his while translating all this info (I'm judging by myself).
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 09, 2011, 01:34:59 AM
Here is it using Google Chrome translator. Sorry, it will be hard to understand:

Edit by Zerstörer :Next time please post a link if you have to. Not a 10 page translated essay. i'm sure anyone can use the google translator and it's automatic.

And for the record, IS2 was far from amazing. 2-3 rounds a minute is apauling, and carrying 28 rounds in total is pretty pathetic and wouldn't last more than 20-30 min in combat. Ammo was exposed and cooked off easily. Also, what is forgotten is that a Tiger1 had amost a 1to1 with/length ratio making turning the tank alot easier + neutral gear. The Tiger2 on the other hand was the first tank to be equiped with the ability to reverse on track while the second one was running forwards also making it very accurate and agile. The proof is that during the Ardenes Offensive, not one of them had any problems traversing what is considered the worse terrain for tanks. German crews considered the tigers more nimble than the IS
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 09, 2011, 01:37:35 AM
Thanks, but i think it was a little excessive to post all of it. ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on May 09, 2011, 04:31:17 AM
haha yeah I actually read it too. I translator did that? it wasnt that bad
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 09, 2011, 04:54:54 AM
Thanks, but i think it was a little excessive to post all of it. ;)

Sorry about that. I probably  should have trimmed it down a bit.  :)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: GATHRAWN on May 09, 2011, 05:55:07 AM
sorry but i couldn't take that site seriuosly. while it was chalk full of tech. data, it was oviously made by a pro russian person. they made the soviet tanks seem like gods and the germans like bums. while i can see the late war soviet tanks as better than the germans due to their uninterupted production, research, and resources. but correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the germans have a better kill to knokout ratio than the russians? dosen't that prove something, if not that the germans had better crews, tech, or weapons. sure they lost but they took alot of soviets with them to the gates of hell.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 09, 2011, 07:12:30 AM
Yes you are right. Some of the Russian tank were superior but there average crews were not. One major reason was the lack of radios in their tanks, making communication between tanks hard. But this should probably be got after at the history forum.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on May 09, 2011, 07:38:32 AM
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the germans have a better kill to knokout ratio than the russians? dosen't that prove something,
One thing I like to remind people of; your kill to death ratio counts for nothing if you have been defeated.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Goober on May 09, 2011, 07:57:23 AM
Thats a matter of opinion....
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: RedGuard on May 09, 2011, 08:25:05 AM
opinion - philosophy, call it what you would.  :)

But the fact remains the same, the victor dictates history.
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Ghost on May 09, 2011, 12:21:11 PM
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the germans have a better kill to knokout ratio than the russians? dosen't that prove something,
don't forget that the germans were mostly fighting out of defensive positions, while the russians were attacking. 
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Zerstörer on May 09, 2011, 06:00:40 PM
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the germans have a better kill to knokout ratio than the russians? dosen't that prove something,
don't forget that the germans were mostly fighting out of defensive positions, while the russians were attacking.
41-43 it was the germans 43-45 the soviets....I'd say it was mostly the other way around

But, gents all this 'historical adventures' must come to an end as they are...once again....irrelevant to this topic ;D
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Seeme on May 10, 2011, 12:26:08 AM
The panther is widely considered to be one of the best in WW2. Early versions suffered  from mechanical problems, borne from lack of proper testing.

Panzerkampfwagon Ausf G was very reliable, having 2953 built, it was a great success compared to D and A.(D being the Bad Broken models.)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: pariah on May 10, 2011, 12:29:25 AM
The panther is widely considered to be one of the best in WW2. Early versions suffered  from mechanical problems, borne from lack of proper testing.

Panzerkampfwagon Ausf G was very reliable, having 2953 built, it was a great success compared to D and A.(D being the Bad Broken models.)
...Which means what, exactly, to Company Of Heroes? ;)
Title: Re: Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops
Post by: Blackbishop on May 10, 2011, 12:32:05 AM
The panther is widely considered to be one of the best in WW2. Early versions suffered  from mechanical problems, borne from lack of proper testing.

Panzerkampfwagon Ausf G was very reliable, having 2953 built, it was a great success compared to D and A.(D being the Bad Broken models.)
...Which means what, exactly, to Company Of Heroes? ;)
That our panthers rocks :P. Seriously i think this topic has come to it's end. I'll close it now, but don't be sad, on a few days the next Sneaky peaky will be posted.