Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: BATTERIES on January 16, 2010, 02:02:31 PM
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Italians should be a call in unit in the game for 1 cp.5 men with poor accuracy curcano rifles but make up for it in abilities and survivability.(Cost 280 mp)
Firstly their negative attributes ,
1. When ordered to move/attack they do as commanded 50% of the time (this adds realism and tactical aspect to italian troop managment)
2. When fired upon they immediatly retreat 75% of the time and 25% of the time they hold position get surrounded and destroyed (encourages troop preservation and intelligent use of positioning)
Now the positives
1. Have the fastest retreat speed of any unit.
2. Can use "make espresso" ability for 2 fuel and 1 munition , this allows italian unit to make espresso's which gives boost to surrounding units allowing faster retreat speeds to all other axis infantry for 15 seconds. (again adds realism because in reality every italian soldier was issued an espresso pot , and caffeine boost would allow faster running.)
3. Cheap.
4. Look slightly like conscripts so could confuse the slower soviet players , also donkies can roam randomly around the map after their arrival (donkey models already made by relic reducing workload)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-B27180%2C_Russland%2C_italienische_Soldaten_mit_Mauleseln.jpg)
I think we all agree this is a viable unit for realism and filling a niche in retreat bonus.
Then for a further 2 cp the powerful italian armour can be called to the field. Costing 350 mp and 40 fuel this beast will strike fear into its russian adversaries,
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/china/cv33.jpg)
Again negatives first
1. Due to harsh weather conditions and italian engineering the tankette will become imbolized on 75% of movement orders (allowing effective static defence).
2. Its fragility means that one anti tank rifle round could penetrate the entire vehicle but its tendency to explode destroys the chassis and ends any attempts by devious russians to capture or salvage this fine piece of italian weaponry (in further updates).
Now the postitives
1. ...? :-\
2.The tankette itself and its wreck can add to battlefield scenery possibly distracting allied players for a few seconds.
The italian army is a must add for this mod for the cool units shown above and their great fighting spirit.
Winston Churchill said of the italians , We had them as allies in ww1 so it is ONLY fair that the germans have them as allies this time around.
This proves the italians should be in the mod in all their glory!
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Took me a while to work out whether you were being serious or not.
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The italians should not be doubted for their fighting prowess.
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I lol'd
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Then for a further 2 cp the powerful italian armour can be called to the field. Costing 350 mp and 40 fuel this beast will strike fear into its russian adversaries,
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/china/cv33.jpg)
What the hell is that?
a soviet stell monster would just roll over it.
-> for all and the same reason the italians dont really seem
to have something special which could fit it. expect the papa, this beast will strike fear in the hearts of the russians.
nah man, other countrys are a good idea, but they simply dont fit, because they have nothing to counter a soviet attack.
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Haha, nice post.
Whats the difference between Bread and Italians...
Scroll --> You can turn bread into soldiers ;D
Nah, in all seriousness Italy being useless was alot to do with the economy not being ready for war, the machinery being crap, and the people not being die-hard fascists. Not necessarily the soldiers themselves.
Cheers
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Italy was an excellent ally be quiet! >:(
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/938/muss2.jpg)
(http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1183/363pxitaliansoldierswwi.jpg)
See mussolini and sum italian soldier like the idea...so plz INCLUDE ITALY PLZ !1!!1!
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First the Russians have the advantage of the IS-2 and NOW they have the advantage of fighting Itallians!
HOW OVERPOWERED DO YOU WANT THE RUSSIANS TO BE
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Making an italian faction would be a weird idea, mainly beacause of balance. But you could put the Alpini (italian mountain troops who also fought in russia) as an infantry unit.
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/370651-2/Alpini+Rava)
They could use weapons like MAB 38 smgs and Carcano 91/38 rifles. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAB_38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAB_38))
MAB 38 was a very good weapon, but never reached the amount of German MP40s because of production issues.
Italians were not bad soldiers. In fact, Alpini were special mountain units, but they were sent with mountain equipment in a plain region against tanks and mechanised infantry (which aren't typical enemies of the battleground where they used to fight :P )
You could put them as a basic infantry unit good vs infantry, but uneffective against vehicles. Maybe an upgrade could be the providing of MAB 38, or something like that.
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First the Russians have the advantage of the IS-2 and NOW they have the advantage of fighting Itallians!
HOW OVERPOWERED DO YOU WANT THE RUSSIANS TO BE
IS-2 really isn't that great, calm down.
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Im surprised how many people here love italian cock...
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...where did willys come into this :P
Warning: we only stray onto that kind of subject when Apex's voice is mentioned...
;D
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Batteries : I am in awe. If I didn't know better, I would
swear you were me on a 2nd account... ;) Same type of
humor ;)
Robob : Yea, nice proposal.
Well, it's entertaining to say the least ;)
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First the Russians have the advantage of the IS-2 and NOW they have the advantage of fighting Itallians!
HOW OVERPOWERED DO YOU WANT THE RUSSIANS TO BE
IS-2 really isn't that great, calm down.
oh the irony!
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wow
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at least some people have a sense of humor :'(
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Well, Its just my humble opinion, but I think is no where near fun making mockery of dead soldiers and war veterans...
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Eh. Same thing as sex orientation, political inclinations,
'taste'... humor can't please everyone. Nothing can, really.
It's all relative.
Disrespectful as it was, I, personally, kinda liked it :)
I love morbid humor :D
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i think that also playing with the italians will be great, maybe you could add them as a light support squad like the luftwaffe troops in Opposing fronts for the PE.
@BATTERIES, dont be stupid the italians fought very bad cos italy wasn't prepared for war, Mussolini also knew that, it's not a fact of being coward.. how would you fight against a tank if you dont have any at weapons or enough equipment..
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Coward, Coward... so easy to use that word.
Italians didn't want the war that Mussolini threw upon them.
They ON TOP OF THAT didn't have proper equipment. What
could they do?
I am TOTALLY in favor of Italians (Any other axis country,
even) being included. Germans did not fight alone, contrary
to some beliefs on Axis side, hm?
Not saying make a PURE Italian faction, though :)
Italian faction with German call-ins? OstHeer with Italian
call-ins? I don't mind.
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Im for Italians with german call ins, sounds cool. Finns with captured equipmment and german call ins can work to...
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Yea. I think by fan mass alone, Finns SHOULD be in-game
in some form, somehow :)
Just not as pure Finn alone, but the idea of a repainted
T34 for OstHeer is yummy (and easy to do!) enough, no? :)
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Hey Luop, Why dont you make your own Ostheer concept? I think you have some cool ideas, you should put them into use.
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I'm all for Italians. Could provide some interesting gameplay.
Whenever called in, they could open up a new front somewhere on the map and force you to split your resources to pull their arses out of the fire... ;D
And as soon as you reach the late game, any Italian units on the map switch sides and fight for the Allies. ::)
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Hey Luop, Why dont you make your own Ostheer concept? I think you have some cool ideas, you should put them into use.
burro said he didn't even read most of them (my bad burro you said "you would go into a coma"), and all other devs didn't even respond to my question so....
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The dev who is in charge of faction design reads all the posts regarding the Ostheer.
Unfortunately as the moderator I have to as well, to check for swearies and naughty people.
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mm as far as i concern, the italians sent to russia more than 50.000 men, 1000 pieces of arty, 400 AT, 250 Anti air and 5000+ light vehicles /tanks this was the ARMIR. In russia the italians weren't that bad as for example happened in africa or in greece because Mussolini sent the best of his troops to show Hitler that italy was still capable to fight.
Those troops were composed essentially by Alpini, well trained infantery, that manged several time to push back the russians during the retreat.
the idea of making an italian faction would be great but not realistic, i mean the italians were less then a 1/10 of all the troops deployed to the eastern front. I would prefere a call in squad like partisans for the russian faction. They were a little bit like the british faction (so like ww1 style): preferred to digg in and use artillery and anti tank guns due to insufficient tank production. (The defences of tobruk were build by the italians and took a while before 1st the brits, 2nd the germans with rommel managed to overtake em)
i would like to show you some video i found about the italian army in russia, let me know what you think about it:
-german propaganda:
Italian combat in Russia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGxV-uDKCGo&feature=related#normal)
-an old but realistic italian film(with also historical clips):
The Italian defeat on the Don River (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIVRg9AhAFc&feature=related#normal)
-an overview of the italian army in all fronts:
Italian Army in Second World War ( Armata Italiana) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxB5fjUwlbw#normal)
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i see a mountain burro in that pick, lol
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Italians should be a call in unit in the game for 1 cp.5 men with poor accuracy curcano rifles but make up for it in abilities and survivability.(Cost 280 mp)
When fired upon they immediatly retreat 75% of the time and 25% of the time they hold position get surrounded and destroyed (encourages troop preservation and intelligent use of positioning)
Have the fastest retreat speed of any unit.
Can use "make espresso" ability for 2 fuel and 1 munition , this allows italian unit to make espresso's which gives boost to surrounding units allowing faster retreat speeds to all other axis infantry for 15 seconds. (again adds realism because in reality every italian soldier was issued an espresso pot , and caffeine boost would allow faster running.)
Cheap.
I think you are being really mean to the Italians... >:(
Who in the world would pop a cup of expresso in the heat of the battle?
You are putting the Italians in the same box people put the French.. Cowards who can't do anything right. Shame on you! ;)
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the french got tricked twice in the same way lol
first world war and second, at least in the first managed to stop the invasion.
what do you all think about my previous post?
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I kind of understood what you were going on about...
Until I read the part of the 'make espresso' ability.
Quite simply, I lol'd.
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How is this disrepectful to italians veterans? If introduced along my outline they could be a force to reckon with ,their skills of retreat could not be surpassed!
Anyway do you think dead soldiers (if they could speak now) , would want you to be crying for them? have a laugh and get a life.
Introduce the italians , but only along my specifications because anything else would be just too abstract when compared to reality.
Also the italians were the best army in the whole war ,
1. they didnt , lose to france when they tried to invade , when france was over run with germans and their army scattered.
2. they didnt , have embarrassingly bad disasterous campaigns everywhere else and call for german help and divert german forces badly needed elsewhere.
3. they didnt , surrender all their equipment and rations in north africa , in turn feeding the british for weeks.
4. they didnt , surrender and then join the allies in a treacherous move that cause japan to declare war on them.
5. they didnt , have the worst designed rifle in the war .
6. they didnt , not have any communication between the different sections of the armed forces ( airforce and navy and army) , meaning combined arms couldnt happen.
7. they didnt , have an airforce that consisted of mostly bi planes in the battle of britain.
Oh wait....
and I could go on.
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We lost a lot of people in the Malvinas War, I understand that pain and I know war and death is not something people should make jokes about.
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Direct insults will lead to the banning of your account.
-WartyX
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Hhaha that was good satire (original post).
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I gave you a warning in your previous post to abide by forum rules. I suggest you read through the Forum Rules (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1574.0) very carefully before making posts in the future. 'stfu noob' is in direct breach of rule number one.
If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.
-WartyX
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::)
People here need to get along more...
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I didnt call you disrespectful BATTERIES. I just said that if this is a joke is not fun to me...
My Post
Well, Its just my humble opinion, but I think is no where near fun making mockery of dead soldiers and war veterans...
Where did I call you disrespectful?
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Oh crap I forgot I said that lol.
Italians still sucked though ;D
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I'm sure germans don't like being all called Nazis.
In-Game, they're sorta fine with it if they get kickass
units to make up for it, eh.
Russians, same. Squishing zillions of stupid no-retreat
conscripts because, well, obviously, soviet generals were
megalomaniacal homicidal monsters who enjoyes the
slaughtering more of their own troops than their enemy's...
Love, beauty, hatred and... humor.
Is in the eye of the beholder. It's relative. Can't
please everyone. Got a few nice articles about humor
that discuss just that.
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::)
People here need to get along more...
let me get this straight...you want people who are waiting for three years that is gonna be a WAR mod for spamming the crap out of infantry to get along?
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Haha, pretty much yes. Surely cant be that hard?
Especially since most of the arguments involve people who've been here around 2 days :P
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"Surely cant be that hard"
don't call me Surely
and hell it's a good thing that a bunch of new people are here (but they could look at at least 3 or so pages of comments and they would notice this has been talked about seven times ;D
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Haha if we could do +1's I'd give you one for the Airplane ;D
Indeed it is good, which is why we should all hug and be friends...look at me, I sound like a bloody hippy :P
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hey I'm the one who drank a cup of grass today ;D its Austin Texas ok! they just cut some grass up and put it in a cup :P don't worry Luzzz I will be your friend and kill a thousand conscripts of your while I am your friend
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I just love how easily topics can get off topic on these forums.
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yeah but oh well
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Ok, I registered just because of this topic (other than the awesome mod)
Despite my nickname, I am italian....it's just a tribute to Premier Romanov from Ra2
Now...
That was indeed quite direspectful...but I can accept satire.
My Grampa served in the ARMIR...and no, he and his buddies never ran like pussies. He even lost a leg in battle.
Italians soldiers were no less brave than any other country's soldiers...they just lacked proper weaponry and the crazy indoctrination seen in other Axis.
They were on the wrong side too...
So, it's true, tanks and weapons sucked...but not the men.
Also, we never commited the atrocities of Germans and Japaneses. We just did our fair share, just like the US and Brits.
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Yea. I think by fan mass alone, Finns SHOULD be in-game
in some form, somehow :)
Just not as pure Finn alone, but the idea of a repainted
T34 for OstHeer is yummy (and easy to do!) enough, no? :)
Perhaps they should act as an equivalent to Soviet partisans.
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Italians = ostheer version of conscripts.
Crappy and used as cannon fodder(like in real life) ;D
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This is hilarious!
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Then for a further 2 cp the powerful italian armour can be called to the field. Costing 350 mp and 40 fuel this beast will strike fear into its russian adversaries,
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/china/cv33.jpg)
What the hell is that?
a soviet stell monster would just roll over it.
-> for all and the same reason the italians dont really seem
to have something special which could fit it. expect the papa, this beast will strike fear in the hearts of the russians.
nah man, other countrys are a good idea, but they simply dont fit, because they have nothing to counter a soviet attack.
what the hell is that you ask? That my friend is the Ostheer's response to the T-90 and the T-70! Its perfect!
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i think if the italians were on the axis side it would be great because it would give me XP quicker....JK :) ;) :P no seriously they would be cool you could give them some cool stuff..!
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Italians were a joke, all their stuff was outdated as of 1930. The only thing the MIGHT scare me would be the Semovente tank hunters. They were built on the same chassis as that monstrosity above and some mounted guns larger than a FlaK 36 88mm so they actually had to load the thing outside on the back of the damn tank as well as it could hold almost no ammo of its own and needed a ammo carrier. This thread makes me lol... (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Semovente_90_53.Aberdeen.0002kyed.jpeg)
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when i red - italians, i thought u are about to suggest italians as a new faction. tbh, i thought of that too because all axis ones are all germans in their way. but let's be serious and go with the facts.
as many said, italians were poor soldiers or poorly led by leaders. another fact is that their equipment and vehicles were soo out of date.
if theres a new faction to suggest. i'd go with japan or at least some german branch of army that was much more different in their structure, meaning not to get many same models with diferent textures. and different building are a must :).
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"Italians were a joke"
no they are not they are good soldiers.
"This thread makes me lol..."
you being a jack ass and a prick does not help.
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Instead italians,much better will be romanian faction.
Romania has been neutral at the start of WW2,then join and fought on the german side when in the offensive campaign against Russia...and switch the side after the red army counter offensive...
Romanian army was far superior in moral,combat skill and equipment than italians,and played one of the most important role in the initial success of germans against Russia..
Search and find if don't believe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/ (http://www.worldwar2.ro/)
From Wikipedia
The war on the Eastern Front
Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined. A Country Study by the U.S. Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress attributes this to "morbid competition with Hungary to curry Hitler's favor... [in hope of]... regaining northern Transylvania."[1]
Romania instituted a civil government in occupied Soviet lands immediately east of the Dniester. After the Battle of Odessa, this included the city of Odessa. The Romanian armies advanced far into the Soviet Union during 1941 and 1942 before being involved in the disaster at the Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-1943.
Romania's most important general, Petre Dumitrescu, was commander of the Romanian Third Army at Stalingrad. In November 1942, the German Sixth Army was briefly put at Dumitrescu's disposal during a German attempt to relieve the Romanian Third Army following a devastating Soviet offensive.
Prior to the Soviet counteroffensive at Stalingrad, the Antonescu government considered a war with Hungary over Transylvania as an inevitability after the expected victory over the Soviet Union.[1] Although it was the most dedicated ally of Germany, Romania's turning to the Allied side in August 1944 was rewarded with Northern Transylvania, which had been granted to Hungary in 1940 after the Second Vienna Award.
_______________________________________________________________________
Italy were and IS a joke in warfare.
________________________________________________________________________
This Romanian tank look wonderful.
Also was so appreciated by germans,who took the project and make Hetzer.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244)
_________________________________________________________________________
Romanian AT gun,used in eastern front => better than german pak40
Is somewhere between zis-3 and pak-40
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300)
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all german allies were poorly equipped and used as front line shield or for controlling their own countries. so no point thinking of others. unless we want horses in coh :)
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unless we want horses in coh :)
Hi,
There is a mule with a launcher and rider , Fully animated and working in COH ....So can have the finger's crossed for horses ;)....
Regards
funnyme
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all german allies were poorly equipped and used as front line shield or for controlling their own countries. so no point thinking of others. unless we want horses in coh :)
You joke right ?
Romania was not so inferior compared with other countries.
Without help from romania,germany was not get so far in russian territories and achieved such victories...
Look again at my previous post.
This is a prove:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244)
This new vehicle immediately attracted the German attention and in December 1943 Antonescu presented to Hitler the project and the blueprints of M-04 prototype. Those inspired the German development of the Hetzer tank-destroyer
Why germans has been so interested by this model if was superior in all ?
Hetzer tank destroyer had "romanian heart".Without romanian plans,nothing like hetzer and other similar tank destroyers has existed.Also all his plans and prototipe was captured later by russians...like many others.Why?
Maresal tank made by one "inferior" person...romanian...
And this is just one situation/example...
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i wont argue with u. i checked myself couple of links. and im not saying u are not right. but i just dont feel it, like a faction.
thou ostheer is on its way so we should continue this if EF crew decides to add more factions :).
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If not an entire faction,maybe some off map calling units from other countries,including Romania will be very nice.
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Instead italians,much better will be romanian faction.
Romania has been neutral at the start of WW2,then join and fought on the german side when in the offensive campaign against Russia...and switch the side after the red army counter offensive...
Romanian army was far superior in moral,combat skill and equipment than italians,and played one of the most important role in the initial success of germans against Russia..
Search and find if don't believe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/ (http://www.worldwar2.ro/)
From Wikipedia
The war on the Eastern Front
Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined. A Country Study by the U.S. Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress attributes this to "morbid competition with Hungary to curry Hitler's favor... [in hope of]... regaining northern Transylvania."[1]
Romania instituted a civil government in occupied Soviet lands immediately east of the Dniester. After the Battle of Odessa, this included the city of Odessa. The Romanian armies advanced far into the Soviet Union during 1941 and 1942 before being involved in the disaster at the Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-1943.
Romania's most important general, Petre Dumitrescu, was commander of the Romanian Third Army at Stalingrad. In November 1942, the German Sixth Army was briefly put at Dumitrescu's disposal during a German attempt to relieve the Romanian Third Army following a devastating Soviet offensive.
Prior to the Soviet counteroffensive at Stalingrad, the Antonescu government considered a war with Hungary over Transylvania as an inevitability after the expected victory over the Soviet Union.[1] Although it was the most dedicated ally of Germany, Romania's turning to the Allied side in August 1944 was rewarded with Northern Transylvania, which had been granted to Hungary in 1940 after the Second Vienna Award.
_______________________________________________________________________
Italy were and IS a joke in warfare.
________________________________________________________________________
This Romanian tank look wonderful.
Also was so appreciated by germans,who took the project and make Hetzer.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244)
_________________________________________________________________________
Romanian AT gun,used in eastern front => better than german pak40
Is somewhere between zis-3 and pak-40
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300)
ok you have said this about 5 times!
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If not an entire faction,maybe some off map calling units from other countries,including Romania will be very nice.
thats more like it :). since ostheers were supported by their allies (romania, bulgaria..etc)
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ok you have said this about 5 times!
Enough...yea...
But i was little bit irritated by some subjects considered to be priorities by some people,who ignore history.
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ok you have said this about 5 times!
Enough...yea...
But i was little bit irritated by some subjects considered to be priorities by some people,who ignore history.
yeah but you just sprayed it across about 5 diffrent threads
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-B27180%2C_Russland%2C_italienische_Soldaten_mit_Mauleseln.jpg)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/china/cv33.jpg)
totally agree with you! Italy must be present as axis allies in this game,it's historically correct!
Italy used also other veichles during WWII:
CV-33 Flamethrower
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/CV-33_Flamethrower_1_Bovington_mod.jpg/800px-CV-33_Flamethrower_1_Bovington_mod.jpg)
Fiat Ansaldo Semovente M34 120/25 : the best tank produced by italian "Regio Esercito"
(http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/images/imgmezzi/m43_105_25_profilo.jpg)
http://www.modellismi.it/prodotti/big/1600.jpg (http://www.modellismi.it/prodotti/big/1600.jpg)
Fiat M 13/40
http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/mezzi1.asp?tipo_carro=11 (http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/mezzi1.asp?tipo_carro=11)
Fiat 75/18 M41
(http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/images/imgmezzi/ansaldo_fiat_75_18_profili_dx.jpg)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/75/18_%28semovente%29 (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/75/18_%28semovente%29)
Fiat C.V.33 (L3)
(http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/images/imgmezzi/l3_profili_sx.jpg)
here the link: http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/mezzicorazzati.html (http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/mezzicorazzati.html)
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How many things have done Italia in eastern front for germany ?
I tell you =>NOTHING.
Other countries yes.
Check germany allies in that period and zone of conflict,and you will find the answer=>who was the most powerful allied of germany against Russia.
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How many things have done Italia in eastern front for germany ?
I tell you =>NOTHING.
Other countries yes.
Check germany allies in that period and zone of conflict,and you will find the answer=>who was the most powerful allied of germany against Russia.
you're bad informed,i tell you that 90.000 italian soldiers died in russia! Mussolini sent them in russia through ice with bad equipments and weapons,but despite this they fought with strenght and honour.The Soviets said : "only Italian Alpini can be considered unbeaten on URSS's ground
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparti_italiani_al_fronte_orientale#Le_perdite (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparti_italiani_al_fronte_orientale#Le_perdite)
Italian 8° Army/ARMIR :
-3° Regiment Savoia Cavalry
-5° Regiment Lanceri di Novara
-Alpini battalion
-201° Motorized Cavalry
-Croatian Legion
-156°,277°,278° Infantry Regiments
-5°,6° Regiments Alpini with artillery
-Alpinian Division Julia : 8°-9° Regiments,3° artillery
-Alpinian Division Cuneo:1°,2° Inantry Regiments,4°,11° artillery
-Alpinian Division Vicenza:
-XXXV Corpo d'Armata (ex CSIR)
-Naval Unit X° Flottiglia MAS (they sinked incrociator Molotov,Kharkov and 3 Soviet's submarines)
and more others,for a total unit number of : 230.000 soldiers
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Yea...
Check this this(from wikipedia).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II)
Maybe you skip them from attention from the previous post.
_______________________________________________________________________
The war on the Eastern Front
Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined.
________________________________________________________________________
http://www.worldwar2.ro/?language=en (http://www.worldwar2.ro/?language=en)
_______________________________________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Odessa_(1941) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Odessa_(1941))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sevastopol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sevastopol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Armies_in_the_Battle_of_Stalingrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Armies_in_the_Battle_of_Stalingrad)
You can compare them ?
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ok guys u went off topic. arguing about unimportant stuff at least not along the topic. so i wont try to pull us back and post anymore in here. :(
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History is VERY important for anyone.
Also is necessary for any game/mod who attempt to represent one part from the past.
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History is VERY important for anyone.
Also is necessary for any game/mod who attempt to represent one part from the past.
perfect! history games are also a way to remember...so every detail is important for a faithful reconstruction
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History is VERY important for anyone.
Also is necessary for any game/mod who attempt to represent one part from the past.
perfect! history games are also a way to remember...so every detail is important for a faithful reconstruction
I'm struggling to think of anything in Company of Heroes that is actually a faithful reconstruction of history. Why should Eastern Front be so realistic?
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Because it has to be better than normal coh?
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Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".
This is a mod for WW2,and game balance is important,but also very important are real facts,recorded in history.
If is NO interest to represent factions in the best accurate way,and is made just in hurry,or without care/attention,some people with family members who has been involved in that events,will be insulted.
Funny movies or games are another thing than games with WW2 subject.This mod represent in limited ways,struggle for life between thousand of poor souls caught in the "nightmare" called World War.
Always this type of games send a message,and will be nice if is made with the best compromise between history/reality,and balance...with the care to not throw insult in anyone.
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Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".
A very good reason
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Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".
This is a mod for WW2,and game balance is important,but also very important are real facts,recorded in history.
If is NO interest to represent factions in the best accurate way,and is made just in hurry,or without care/attention,some people with family members who has been involved in that events,will be insulted.
Funny movies or games are another thing than games with WW2 subject.This mod represent in limited ways,struggle for life between thousand of poor souls caught in the "nightmare" called World War.
Always this type of games send a message,and will be nice if is made in with the best compromise between history/reality,and balance...with the care to not throw insult in anyone.
Two words, video game
I couldn't careless if the uniforms are somewhat miss or if they try to make this into a pro war mod they have every right to interpret it as they will as long as its within reason.
Even if they go so far as to make them an entire new faction as long as its balanced and the gameplay is smooth. Nothing else truly matters.
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It matters.
Why this game can't use real german symbol?
Answer=>because is a delicate problem that....and in germany,is prohibited to use that word,to write it on the walls,or to paint them.
Anyway....moderators have the option to choose...if have respect for history or all heroes and deaths...or don't care and spit in that direction.
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Wow, calm down. You're taking this way too seriously.
Tragedy + Time = Comedy. It's a simple reality.
If everybody always took everything as serious as you seem to do, humanity would have probably already collectively committed suicide out of depression.
Company of Heroes - and with it, this Mod - is entertainment. That means that some things are going to be exaggerated, untrue, modified, adjusted, etc.
If you want history, read a history book. This is entertainment. At one point or another, the developers will always come across an intersection where they'll have to choose between history and fun - and any good developer will choose fun.
Because that's what Games are about. Live with it.
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I told just to be kept some accuracy from the history,and not to be a comedy,how you say.
And that for few good reasons .
That is all. :)
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I told just to be kept some accuracy from the history,and not to be a comedy,how you say.
And that for few good reasons .
That is all. :)
I'm sure it's historical for Nazi National flags to be draped from HQ's and buildings inatead of a Kriegsmarine flag (which is innaccurate, as they too had a Swastika in the ring and an Iron Cross in the upper left corner).
I've said this before and I'll say it again; I hate it when people feel like they need to sugar-coat some things and use euphenisms to make Jews and German Government officials happy, it was history, live with it. You're the reason why we'll have another Holocaust.
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Take it easy, man.
I once take it also that serious as you (Spaniards), but calm down.
This is a freaking video-game after all. If people are about to learn history from video-games (and hollywood-movies, btw), we'll be doomed anyway.
I'm sure we all admit the benefit of Romanian troops and admit their incredible power and so on...
But please don't freak out about such a childish topic like those fucking swastikas.
Somebody has to be Nazi or even worse if he cares that much in having them in a video-game.
Look at those ******* people playing SS thinking they're somekind of "cool". Then you'll get what I mean...
Look at those ******* people playing SS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba3baBS8gbo#normal)
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Take it easy, man.
I once take it also that serious as you (Spaniards), but calm down.
This is a freaking video-game after all. If people are about to learn history from video-games (and hollywood-movies, btw), we'll be doomed anyway.
I'm sure we all admit the benefit of Romanian troops and admit their incredible power and so on...
But please don't freak out about such a childish topic like those fucking swastikas.
Somebody has to be Nazi or even worse if he cares that much in having them in a video-game.
Look at those ******* people playing SS thinking they're somekind of "cool". Then you'll get what I mean...
Look at those ******* people playing SS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba3baBS8gbo#normal)
No way are those SS.
Also, you children don't understand the differance between WAFFEN SS and the "POLITICAL SS". The Waffen were field troops and the forefront of German military campaigns at the time, nothing is wrong with them. The Political side of the SS is the one to blame for carrying out the Holocaust and guarding Nazi officials.
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No way are those SS.
It's Reenactors playing SS. And making a grave mistake by singing the Tanker's song.
Also, you children don't understand the differance between WAFFEN SS and the "POLITICAL SS". The Waffen were field troops and the forefront of German military campaigns at the time, nothing is wrong with them.
Actually, especially during the early war, there was a significant overlap of regular SS members who joined the Waffen SS to fight. While this got less and less as the war went on, it's still true.
Also, Waffen SS units were preferably used for Anti-Partisan actions, which by contemporary German doctrine meant taking and killing hostages (according to the 10 for 1 rule established by the Italians in Africa), burning down entire villages to deny the Partisans food & shelter and executing anybody suspected of supporting/being a partisan.
Waffen SS members would also immediately execute captured Jews and Bolsheviks, rather than wait for Einsatzgruppen.
The Political side of the SS is the one to blame for carrying out the Holocaust and guarding Nazi officials.
Waffen SS (and to a much lesser extent, Wehrmacht) would regularly be used by Einsatzgruppen to seal of and clear ghettos. They would also sometimes be used as security detail for Einsatzgruppen when those committed massacres outside the Concentration Camps.
Additionally, wounded Waffen SS members would be used as Concentration Camp guards during their rehabilitation, though they were generally considered less sadistic than the non-German Handschar that was usually reserved for that. It was also considered unhonorable work, and many of them did there best to get transferred back to their unit or somewhere else as quickly as possible. But still.
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The SS existed. Period. That doesn't mean that they were good, or anything like that, but they did exist. What was the point of fighting a war to end the atrocity that was the Holocaust if we just hide the facts. We have to learn from history. And Aouch, just calm down. Just because someone wants a historically accurate symbol in a game does not mean they are a Nazi. Personally, I don't care whether or not the Ostheer has swastikas. For me, the more historical accuracy, the better. But if people are going to go into cardiac arrest over a f*cking symbol (excuse the language), then just keep it out. Sorry for the rant, just my 2 cents.
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To be honest, I don't get why people get worked up about Swastikas, either. They were a good luck symbol in India and Tibet. What? Are we going to see four leaf clovers or rabit feet as a sign of evil after an oppressive, genocidal regime happens to use them on their flag?
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Are we going to see four leaf clovers or rabit feet as a sign of evil after an oppressive, genocidal regime happens to use them on their flag?
Short Answer: Yes
Of course the Swastika wasn't invented by the Nazis and has had different significance to different cultures at different times.
But we live in the Western culture in the 21st century, and for us, the Swastika has become associated with Nazism, Racism and the Holocaust.
There are three main reasons why a lot of people prefer to avoid the Swastika in their games, even if they are set during WW2:
1) Respect for other people's sensitivities. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who are offended by the display of Swastikas in a Game. They believe the subject matter to be too serious and that a video game, in which you really defy all history (no matter how 'realistic' the game attempts to be), isn't the appropriate medium for it.
You might not be offended, but respect the fact that other people might.
2) Foresight. The developers usually do not wish to see a large part of their community consisting out of Nazis, White Supremacists, etc - it's bad PR. The ability to play as Nazis under the Swastika somehow tends to magically attract these kinds of folks.
Sure, they can always mod the game so that they do get Swastikas anyway, but then the developer can point at just that. It's not their problem then.
3) Legal reasons. There are several countries in which Swastikas are banned symbols, most notably of course Germany and Austria.
Together they alone have a GDP (PPP) of $US 3.25 Trillion - that's a significant market.
Therefore, almost every Game that includes a Swastika has to have it removed and replaced in the respective countries. This is an additional (though) minor strain on the Art resources of the Developer, and most of the developers consider the necessity of including the symbol as so negligible that, alongside the other reasons, they just choose to avoid including it in the first place.
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uhh explain what the last 20 posts had to do with the title "Italians"
to get us back on start here:
I would personaly like to see Italy play a minor role as a back up call in for the German Ostheer. OR perhaps as a minor unit. Perhaps only a certian number of them can be built like three squads or so? They should be tough but at the same point weak. They should have weaker guns, but be good at other things. They should have many new kinds of things ( if any of you have played the Mare Nostrum mod for RO you would know what I mean)
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"Italians were a joke"
no they are not they are good soldiers.
"This thread makes me lol..."
you being a jack ass and a prick does not help.
I was not saying Italians in general were bad they just were not exactly in love with Mussolini so morale was weak much of the time and their anti/tank quality was subpar although their fighter aircraft were some of the best for a good amount of the war. Italy just was not ready for the production demands of ammunition or equipment. Hence why Mussolini actually asked Hitler to hold the offensives for another year or so to prepare.
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maybe we should all settle down and play a bit of panzers phase 2 were the italians are the main faction of the axis-campaign
they are fun to play but their tanks suck compared to the german ones
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Actually , if you look at more of the italian units , they have some pretty decent stuff , i thought it would be better to make Italians instead of ostheer , because there are already 2 german teams in the game
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i don't think its a good idea, i think its bad... :)
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I didn't read all the replays but when speaking about Italians I always remember nice game: Steel Panthers - turn based real hardcore strategy of WW2. There were 2 extremes :) Italians and Japanese. While sitting in trenches when you start an arty bombard on them Italians were always running and Japanese never. I think this was the point of BATTERIES when he started this topic... to make some good recession.
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I just realized how much I would love an Italian faction. I think the Ostheer should take priority, but if the devs want another project it would be rather interesting. They had enough of a presence and a large enough variety of weapons to be well represented in EF.
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Itallians would only work if CoH was based towards early or maybe mid war but not late war. They contributed almost nothing after 1944 towards the axis.
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I had the list down for an extra truck in the Commonwealth for the use of French troops, same thing wouldn't help unless it was like '39-'42
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While the original idea is partially historically aligned, It could use improvement.
The Italians were not bad soldiers. BEING an Italian, I would be able to relate to some of the issues.
The Italians were scared of Mussolini. We didn't have a choice, as Mussolini conspired with Hitler.
The Italians attempted to kill Mussolini 4 times. Hitler aided Mussolini 3 of the 4 by sending in troops to control and support.
But the fourth time, Mussolini was captured and taken to the village of Giulino di Mezzegra, where he was shot twice in the chest.
Not soon after, his and his mistress's body, along with close followers, were dragged to Milan, and hung by hooks. The people of Italy shot, spat, kicked, punched, slit and split his body, already deformed.
What Versedhorison says is also true, and it solely because the Americans had invaded from the south AND in 1943, the Italians were getting angry with Mussolini, practically GIVING UP, resulting in his death.
BATTERIES makes the point. The Italians were VERY scared of Mussolini, and therefore, were not the most obedient. But they weren't bad soldiers. They fought for their life and country, not necessarily for the Fascist.
Their production and weaponry suffered because of their poor care within the country. Industrial factories were a literal joke. Before, during, and after the war, the country suffered major poverty. Infact, some of the heavier tanks were comparable to German tanks, and could compete with a M10 if required.
To get back to the addition of Italians, this is what I suggest for an Italian Unit for the Ostheer:
Suggestion 1:
Contadini Italiano (Which translates to Italian Countrymen)
5 Men, Armed with Hunting Rifles
220 Manpower
Good Accuracy, mediocre power in the rifles, slow reload
Weary from exaggerated marching, Contadini walk slower than most other infantry.
Contandini do NOT have a large health.
Can be upgraded with Carcano Rifles, for 50 Munitions
*All troops receive Carcanos
*Improved Power
*Improved Reload Speed
*Boosting Morale, Contadini walk like normal troops.
__________________________________________________
Suggestion 2
Italiano Fucilieri (Italian Riflemen)
5 men, Armed with Carcano Rifles
275 Man Power
Mediocre Accuracy, High Power, Mediocre Reload Speed
Moral is weakened, but not enough to slow the troops down.
Have Normal health, Italians can take 2 or 3 shots, but more than that and they'll fall to the ground.
The more they see their partners fall, the worse the Fucilieri fight.
Can be upgraded with 1 Beretta Modello 38 Sub Machine Gun:
*45 Munitions
*Adds one Beretta Modello 38 to the arsenal of the Fucilieri
-Gun Improvements
-*High Fire rate from the holder
-*Gun is very powerful
-*Boosting Morale, the squad reloads faster, but not the SMG holder
-*Adds Suppression fire to the ability to the squad. It IS active, you must decide when to use it.
-*This gun is quite loud compared to most WWII guns, so if considered, add high sound pitch.
___________________________________________________
To take into consideration of BATTERIES idea, I suggest the following implement:
***With very weak morale within the Italian ranks, squads have a 15% chance of disobeying a given order to move, attack, or capture. They will, instead, retreat.
***Italians CANNOT crew enemy weapons. They are trained to use normal hunting rifles and carcanos, not Mortars.
(However, this doesn't mean that if the Modello 38 is dropped, it can not be re-crewed by the Italians ;D)
___________________________________________________
(On a side note, this unit would be produced at a very basic level, either at a low level barracks or, on a doctrine layout, a starting call in for 1 CP)
___________________________________________________
(Fun fact: The Italian Mortars were only 4.5 CM :D)
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Some of the Italians may have been decent soldiers but most were very reluctant to fight for a cause they hardly cared about, especially after a couple of years of losing. Not to be offensive to anyone but the Italians were the losers of the war.
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No offense taken.
Defensive values would be little to none on these soldiers. Cover would be the only help they had.
They lost the war early because the Italians didn't care for their leadership. If they required so, they fought for their life, not for Mussolini.
If any of these suggestions were taken in, they would be used as a basic start unit, similar to Volksgrenadiers, only a bit less, and different equipment, 15% disobey, etc.
I think they'd make a good addition to the Ostheer.
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you might want to repost that whole post man...it makes a lot of sense too
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No need to, I reposted and decided that in order to implement a unit like this, I would need to come up with a concept.
So Concept I shall come up with. It's majorly laid out, I just need:
1. Details
2. Doctrines
3. Some special rules.
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yea but what I am saying is that posting it here on this thread is silly you can make your own ;)
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I posted it in Ostheer suggestions last night ;) A mod told me to come up with a concept, so I'm working it all out :D
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wait a mod.....for a whole Italy? does this mod have a name?
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Sure; Lord Rommel is his name and he said that he dosent like all this single unit ideas because just one unit isnt a hole faction and so it would be nice when persons think about HOLE concepts and not just one unit.
The idea behind this is that the team had to find a solution how and where to implement such a single unit. That is not very good because the most units are part of a special nation structure. Think of the PE - here u have a half track based faction - when u now say that u want a sFh 18 at the PE the creators would be confused because this unit dosent fit into the PE and so it is better to think about a hole faction structure then just about one unit!
Thats the reason why i had said to Cranialwizard that he should think about a concept - it hadnt to be a all in all italien concept but it should be a concept where other person can see where and how he want to implement such a unit like italian rifles or tanks ;)
My wish: single units are nice but really problematicaly ( out of my view ) so i'm happy when person think about the HOLE faction and not just one part because that would be a horrible puzzle!
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No, it's actually a good thing that you suggested that I come up with a concept! I am still designing it, and coming up with some doctrines, finishing unit stats and such.
The Italians will be hosted with the Romanians and Finnish troops in a early level barrakcs from the faction.
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so its more of a "minor axis" mod?
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Think of how the Wehrmacht is laid out:Wehrmacht Quarters-Krieg Barracks
Wehrmacht Quarters is replaces with a building called the Foreign Units Quarters. 3 squads are deployable, Italian Infantry, Finnish Infantry(Small group), or a Romanian HMG. The HMG is much underpowered compared to a moderate MG34 or MG42. These units are very cheap and easy to make.
Uberlegen Unit Kommand replaces Kriegbarracks. Think of Kreig barracks and Wehrmacht quarters combined. There are inexperienced troops, regular troops, and elite infantry. There are also Mortars and MGs to deploy from here.
These troops are composed of Germany.
The reason and concept for the early foreign units is because earlier in the war these other countries were ready. They wanted to help germany destroy the allies.
Later in the war, it was much diffrent. Most of the foreigners had pulled out by then.
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the problem with foreign troops is that they pretty much diddn't exist at the time CoH is based. even with ballence over realism I'm having trouble seeing how they would be implemented very well. Also for the record I think it would best if we just leave them out all together as since there are lots of people posting on these forums there are a few from some countries who particiapated in the war on the axis side. What I've seen there has been a few people from some of those countries wanting to see troops from their own country due to nationalistic pride or whatever. Personally I can only see this going in a bad direction. IF there were any foreign troops in a new german faction there would likely only be one as to be honest just about all of the foreign troops fighting on the axis side were pretty poor in comparison to almost all german troops. Therefore if one foreign troop unit was chosen to be implemented then some people from some of the other countries may be disapointed very badely for not haveing their country chosen. As a result all I can see that can come out of this is a considerable ammount of argument and disapoinment and possible flamming and other nasties one could expect. I personally think the whole foreign troops idea should just be avoided largely because I personally can only see this ending badely. Please dont take this the wrong way and I mean no offence to anyone as this is just one mans opinion but I guess this should be a bit of a warning to the dev's that if you pick one country other people may be a bit upset.
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... What I've seen there has been a few people from some of those countries wanting to see troops from their own country due to nationalistic pride or whatever. Personally I can only see this going in a bad direction. ...
Golden words mate, as it already happened - closed topic luckily :):
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2900.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2900.0)
I was against the idea including other nations too. But it can be done avoiding naming the unit with some nation, just call it "Ostheer infantry" or "Ostheer support squad" ... with some neutral name representing foreign nations participating in Eastern front campaign.
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About how done are you with the obsteer? 1/4,1/2/,3/4?
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Have a look at the Relic Forums, The armoury section there is one on the second page I think. the thread was locked cause the OP was being a twat to people.
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"... What I've seen there has been a few people from some of those countries wanting to see troops from their own country due to nationalistic pride or whatever. Personally I can only see this going in a bad direction. ..."
uhhhhh yes and no. The ones who defend it more are from those countries but come on dude.....you and me both know that people from America, England, Russia and everywhere else would like to see the minor nations in this game. It just adds new stuff; and new stuff is well....new and cool (unlike you I'm not gonna state that EVERYONE from that countries wants to see those troops but I'm talking about a margin)
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of course yes I know that there are also other people who propose these ideas however I feel that it would be better not just picking one over a few.
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Make a whole Italian (or Romanian or just call them axis allies) Tier I.
Cheap infantry with LMG upgrade,
Italian motorbike or a tankette (like a vickers MG BREN with as much firepower and suppression as PE halftrack),
47mm gun,
A mortar or a light howitzer.
A whole Tier will not be "Out of Context" like a single non German unit.
It would be fun to play UK or US vs Italians too. Ostheer armies were shifted to the Italy afler the Kurk battle. Alot of non German troops were defending France in 1944.
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See this is my problem. If the Devs were to include on *foreign country* say italy for example everone who wanted finland or romania or other countries will be rather disapointed and I can't see it ending well. All I see working is either having a noname foreign squad or no foreign squads at all.
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@Seeme: About 3/4, units and abilities are finished. Redoing my Veterancy, getting translations for special things, and doing doctirnes. everything else is done.
@Paciat: Exactly how my Foreign Units Barracks works, only there are 3-4 major countries, and each has it's own special weapons for it's country, own names, and own stats. For example, the Italians carry CarCano rifles with a Modello 38 SMG upgrade. However, the Romanians, also deployable, act for a cheap MG. They carry a MG produced in their own country and clear the road for the more powerful German units carrying MG34s. See how it works?
@ Versedhorison: In my concept, it does not concentrate on only Italians. The Foreign units barracks includes 4 diffrent units all from diffrent conuntries. Romania, Finland, Italy, And Hungarians. I am thinking about adding another country (Bulgaria)
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See this is my problem. If the Devs were to include on *foreign country* say italy for example everone who wanted finland or romania or other countries will be rather disapointed and I can't see it ending well. All I see working is either having a noname foreign squad or no foreign squads at all.
This is in fact a huge problem. Versidhorison is totally right about that.
Also, i would suggest the same solution.
And even if you have 4 countries in the Ostheer of different nations, there would still be several others complaining about that, since there were still more countries involved.
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We have planned a way to include foreign troops.
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We have planned a way to include foreign troops.
Nice to hear that. im really wondering how you will do it. Im sure there is a good way to include them. But there are many bad ones as well ;)
But i guess you will take the right one ;)
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See this is my problem. If the Devs were to include on *foreign country* say italy for example everone who wanted finland or romania or other countries will be rather disapointed and I can't see it ending well. All I see working is either having a noname foreign squad or no foreign squads at all.
This is in fact a huge problem. Versidhorison is totally right about that.
Also, i would suggest the same solution.
And even if you have 4 countries in the Ostheer of different nations, there would still be several others complaining about that, since there were still more countries involved.
okay yea thank you...makes sense. I dont get why the heck they would include (NO OFFENSE PEOPLE)
1.)Spain (I'll re-give my argument on that if you want)
2.)Finland: they never were next to German troops fighting together
3.)Hungary: I mean its just to minor
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okay yea thank you...makes sense. I dont get why the heck they would include (NO OFFENSE PEOPLE)
1.)Spain (I'll re-give my argument on that if you want)
2.)Finland: they never were next to German troops fighting together
3.)Hungary: I mean its just to minor
Thank you for the support, although they kind of have a point.
That's why if you read my ostheer suggestion there are also doctrinal national units that can be called in to help.
Spain didn't have too much in the war, they were busy recovering from civil war.
Hungry and Finland had a large part in the war too.
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Spain didn't have too much in the war?
15. Spanische Staffel: 5,454 combat missions and 163 victories.
250.division and blaue legion participated battles:siege of leningrad,Volkhov,Udarnik,first battle of Smiesko,Sitno,Muravji,Nikitkino,Possad,second battle of Sitno,Schevelevo,third battle of Volkhov,Maloye Samoshie,Poselok,Krasny Bor,Putrolovo,Pushkin and battle of berlin(elements belonging to blaue divison).
More than 49,000 casualties caused to the enemy.
2 Knight Crosses (one with Oak Leaves)
2 Golden Crosses
138 Iron Crosses First Class
2,359 Iron Crosses Second Class and
2,216 War Merit Crosses with Swords.
are you sure.
About italian,is a interesting idea italy have good soldiers but poorly equipped,my idea a unit similar volksgrenadier equiped with carccano rifles or smg beretta mp 38 a.
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They had an active part in the war, yes, but they weren't a super duper contributor. The finnish held a huge grudge against the Soviet Union, spain helped because Germany helped the Nationalist.
Actually, I have a whole Ostheer faction down pat, including the Italians described!
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3282.msg31749#msg31749 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3282.msg31749#msg31749)
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a super duper contributor lol,
Sports at Spain to Germany:
iron
1941: 117,966 t.
1942: 127,769 t.
1943: 162,445 t.
1944: 105,709 t.
pyrite
1941: 9,631 t.
1942: 25,694 t.
1943: 43,273 t.
1944: 30,688 t.
lead
1941: 735 t.
1942: 1,447 t.
1943: 676 t.
1944: 4,361 t.
mercury
1940: 345 t.
1941: 759 t.
1942: 200 t.
1943: 305 t.
1944: 345 t.
Tungsten wolframite
1940: 29 t.
1941:15 t.
1942: 44 t.
1943: 430 t.
1944: 323 t.
Zinc
1941: 31,546 t.
1942: 18,809 t.
1943: 22,849 t.
1944: 10,241 t.
few tons exported italy? few combat missions in the air? few iron crosses win?yes,italy send more soldiers but bad equipped and low combative value.
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GUYS STOP IT........THIS IS LIKE THE 5TH TIME THAT SOME SPANIARD HAS YELLED AT SOME ITALIAN (or someone else about Spain's history)
SPAIN HAD TROOPS yes they did.....okay you have to think though. Medals mean little, Germany needed support from other nations and if they handed out medals to these Spaniards that fought then the leaders of Spain would think there men are almost super soldiers; that's one of the reasons these Spaniards received so many medals.
Herman Spain wasn't even at war with anyone it was a few bloody idiots who REALLY liked Fascism so they fought for Germany
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Ford, it's all good, I'm not arguing, I guess you could say. I wanted you to give a comment on the faction because of your experience on the forum. It's a lil' unique and VERY diffrent, but it's got some really good factors ;)
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ford my friend stop, you say stop, there is a post with 9 pages are talking about the Italians and I put 2 comments with statistics and ask me to stop? ok.
not call idiots those who died for their beliefs whether German, Romanian, Spanish or Italian.
just one thing not they were super soldiers, they were only men
is hernan no herman, herman was the name of my grandfather.
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well my names' nor Ford so ;) but what I'm saying go through the pages of posts and you will be glad to see this topic has been discussed several times; and we always end with someone just never coming back to the forums
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verstanden, mein Freund ;D, I just want to know that the Spanish were also there,grewtings.
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hmm well what I'm saying is that Spain didn't technically fight A strong proud group of Fascists fought not Spain
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were not all fascists, officers, pilots (Spanische Staffel), technicians, civil guards (Spanish police who served in the feldgendarmerie], doctors were not fascists.
the troops if there was a high percentage of Falangists [fascist similar to the Italian black shirts).
many enlisted to return the visit of the Russian Communists during the civil war.
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true but in theory you are what your nation is
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We Italians never wanted to go to war. In war we wanted to go home. At home we wanted to STAY home. Staying home we wanted only 1 thing to solve the rest of our problems.
Mussolini, as they say in my country, completo.
Therefore that's exactly what they did.
They never fought for him. They fought solely for themselves. They would have been killed otherwise.
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Discussions like this are exactly what i mean, and there is no argument against them.
But i like cranials point of view, i dont see any kind of patriotism in his worlds. I will check your concept soon!!
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Their werent many Italians in the EF anyway people. Well, no as many to put on Coh
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then why add Spain :P Im pretty sure there were less Spaniards than Italians
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Their werent many Italians in the EF anyway people. Well, no as many to put on Coh
Ostheer is just a name for a 3rd axis fraction that is needed to balance Eastern Front mod.
UK will be able to fight Ostheer, so why not making an Italian unit (or whole Tier). Ostheer will probaly have a PzIII and buildable Tigers so having Italians too would be like commanding Africa Corps (still all these units were used in the east too).
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Ostheer just means Eastern Army
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after reading the last 10-15 posts this is exactly why there shouldn't be any forgeign troops. I will reafirm my suggestion to the Dev's that foreign troops should be excluded for this very reason.
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after reading the last 10-15 posts this is exactly why there shouldn't be any forgeign troops. I will reafirm my suggestion to the Dev's that foreign troops should be excluded for this very reason.
Becouse you say so or becouse anyone else wants any kind of forgein troops?
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because if there are specific foregin troops then there will be arguments and flaming from people who wanted a particular unit named for a country they may belong to or just wanted a certain foreign unit.
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Just ask the devs what they hope to get out of foreign troops, and what criteria they will follow to choose them that mirror the inclusion of certain units in vCoH.
If it is sheer utility, Romanians (Volks, Stugs). If it is for charisma, Finns (Tiger, Panther). If it is for uniqueness, Spaniards and Italians (King Tiger, Jagdpanther).
Those criteria can be mixed, of course.
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because if there are specific foregin troops then there will be arguments and flaming from people who wanted a particular unit named for a country they may belong to or just wanted a certain foreign unit.
okay so one or two idiots yells on the forums OHHH NO! :P so we shouldn't have a president so no one gets angry over the results? So we shouldn't have a winner to any realty TV show because SOMEONE is gonna be angry with the results :P right?
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A shell from the IS2 would penentrate 10 M13/40s lined up. It would be boring. Plus if you included Italians it would be quite stupid to see Italians fighting the 1944 equipments of the allied nations. (they surrendered officially in 1943)
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this isn't MOW man XD, and by the time your enemy has an IS2 im sure you will have more than Italians (I think a king Tiger can knock out a row of T-60s)
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this isn't MOW man XD, and by the time your enemy has an IS2 im sure you will have more than Italians (I think a king Tiger can knock out a row of T-60s)
Someone even suggested Japaneses, you know, their tanks are worse than M13/40s...
maybe the SU 152 would blew up 20 lined up ha-gos? and even a sherman alone could defeat the entire tank force the Japanese have. oh wait, the 50 cal would killed a few at least.
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NAme wouldnt be a prob. Just name it "Italian squad." Anyone have a Prob about that?
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NAme wouldnt be a prob. Just name it "Italian squad." Anyone have a Prob about that?
Exactly this is a problem out of my view ;)
When we name a squad "italian fighter" a large group
of people would start "crying" and "flaming" [ just remeber our "psychic" romanian... Concrete names are a problem ] because their nation isnt represented and all in all a
Ostheer hadnt enough space to give each axis nation an own squad. So in my opinion a "neutral" name like "nordic volunteers" or "mediterranean volunteers" would be the best because such a general nameing will include much more then just ONE nation ;)
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??? ???
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??? ???
Rommel is just right.
I dont know what your thinking at the moment
but i think you didnt understand him right.
Also liking the idea of naming Rommel suggested,
since it kills 2 birds with one stone ;)
-V-
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NAme wouldnt be a prob. Just name it "Italian squad." Anyone have a Prob about that?
Exactly this is a problem out of my view ;)
When we name a squad "italian fighter" a large group
of people would start "crying" and "flaming" [ just remeber our "psychic" romanian... Concrete names are a problem ] because their nation isnt represented and all in all a
Ostheer hadnt enough space to give each axis nation an own squad. So in my opinion a "neutral" name like "nordic volunteers" or "mediterranean volunteers" would be the best because such a general nameing will include much more then just ONE nation ;)
thats not half bad :) you could like put arm patches on them on a certian squad and have Italian, Spanish and Romanian in one
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NAme wouldnt be a prob. Just name it "Italian squad." Anyone have a Prob about that?
Exactly this is a problem out of my view ;)
When we name a squad "italian fighter" a large group
of people would start "crying" and "flaming" [ just remeber our "psychic" romanian... Concrete names are a problem ] because their nation isnt represented and all in all a
Ostheer hadnt enough space to give each axis nation an own squad. So in my opinion a "neutral" name like "nordic volunteers" or "mediterranean volunteers" would be the best because such a general nameing will include much more then just ONE nation ;)
Thank you this is what I've been talking about.
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okay well you didn't bring it out vety well to tell you the truth and I have an idea for the units.
you could like put arm patches on them on a certian squad and have Italian, Spanish and Romanian in one
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Wait, so... you would put Spanish, Romanian, Italian and God knows who else all in the same squad?
That sounds silly.
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Wait, so... you would put Spanish, Romanian, Italian and God knows who else all in the same squad?
That sounds silly.
Its for people like you who want Spaniards (for some reason) and for people like me that want any other country
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lol. We have to be "politically correct."
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in my opinion.They should be in the game.Weak troops,But hey,it always has it's positives. ;D
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in my opinion.They should be in the game.Weak troops,But hey,it always has it's positives. ;D
Why? I would prefer a unit with good abilities than a very weak and cheap unit. We know this system in soviet army! ;)
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You guys should read Rommel's works.
He mentions that the average Italian soldier was not a bad one, but rather they were led by inexperienced men, and were using WWI equipment. The average Italian soldier was one whom did not want to fight, for he had nothing to gain from it.
Italy and Japan are the next factions if anything.
Romania and Bulgaria failed miserably on the Eastern Front with troops as early as 1943 surrendering before firing a shot.
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Romania and Bulgaria failed miserably on the Eastern Front with troops as early as 1943 surrendering before firing a shot.
well i d like to see you then and there ! you have some rifles, here come T-34... go on hero >:(
had they had the AT-power, exp officers reserves and Pz, it would have been all right !
But all good stuff had to go to Paulus !
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in my opinion.They should be in the game.Weak troops,But hey,it always has it's positives. ;D
Why? I would prefer a unit with good abilities than a very weak and cheap unit. We know this system in soviet army! ;)
What good abilities can a poorly trained and badly equipped army have?
Ostheer needs volk like units.
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You coul make a 9-men squad including one italian, one spaniard, one romanian, one indian, one finn, one ukrainian, one french, one dane and one belgian (he should be slightly overweight to be distinuishable from the dane), alltogether mumbling some multi-lingual drivel when clicked on...
Please don't include anything but germans into the Ostheer. Please!
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You coul make a 9-men squad including one italian, one spaniard, one romanian, one indian, one finn, one ukrainian, one french, one dane and one belgian (he should be slightly overweight to be distinuishable from the dane), alltogether mumbling some multi-lingual drivel when clicked on...
Please don't include anything but germans into the Ostheer. Please!
The multinational squads are a bad idea, it seems like a war story where a bunch of guys who don't know each other getting seperated from their units and stumbling across one another. Then they need to get over personal opinions and differeneces and fight as a squad. It's way too unrealistic. But to be honest, I don't get what's with this "Oh my god! Ostheer features need to fit the original generic COH theme! Ach nein!" obsession.
Yes, I do want Spanish that are verbally indicated that they're Spanish troops that say, "Si senor?",
And I want the same for Finnish, Italian and Romanian squads. But in their own tongues.
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Its gunna be alot of voice acting...
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Never thought that anybody could take my suggestion to be serious... impressive.
Anyhuuuuu.... I dont see the sense for including such units besides eye- or mind candy. The regular troops of countries aiding the germans in their campaigns where not really strong or highly specialized in any way. There are some decent Waffen SS units (like the Estonian Panzerjäger of Tannenberg or the Nordland Division, mainly Danes, who fought in Berlin), but it would be random to include one country and not another. And still I rather fight with 1. SS Pnz. Div. LSAAH then with some random non-german SS volunteers... no offense...
I dont see the role of such a non-german unit in the game... as long you dont want to ignore history and create an ubber-heroic albanian mounaineer-squad with airborne-armor and "mule-ability" to be able to cross ridges.... hm... wait a minute... does anyboddy speak albanian? ;)
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Nah, Italian and Spanish are major languages so wouldn't they have their own voices like Russians?
But the reason why I'm against a mixed-nationality unit is because it simply didn't happen. They would not put Frenchmen, Spaniards, Italians and et cetera into one unit.
The only reason why we don't foreign units in the original game is because there just weren't many on the western front, but this mod sn't abut the western front is it? Most foreigners were sent to the east, they need to be depicted somehow, perhaps pick a few of the most major nationalities and bring in a few units with a special barracks. They would have special abillities that German units don't have.
The Italians and Spanish could provide regular infantry support, Hungarians and Romanians have armor. Then there'd be a unit equivalent of Foreign SS which fill the gap between what will be the German SS and regular infantry.
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No. There's so much german weaponry still not depicted in the game... Italian and spanish infantry support would be pretty weak... maybe a bit better than conscirpts... romanian armor? lol.... what use?
Landser, Gebirgsjäger, Heeres-Sturmpioniere, LSSAH, Totenkopf... are by far more representative of the german eastern Army than some useless foreign support troops. No insult intended.
You cant make italians or spaniards the volks-equivalent within the ostheer... thats just not right from a historical perspective, if standard german infantry d be foreign. So what basically remains is a call-in unit. But this would need special abilites of use. And foreign units where generally pretty weak standard infantry use to fill in the gaps in the huge frontline.
Just give me examples of the use of such support units? Regarding gameplay and history...?
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I thought Lord_Rommel (he's part of the DEV-crew) already mentioned various times, that, if at all, foreign axis states are happen to be part of the Ostheer, they'll have general unit-names and descriptions. Like Northern Volunteers or even Volunteer Squad.
Thus no Spaniards, Finns, Bulgarians or whatever.
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I thought Lord_Rommel (he's part of the DEV-crew) already mentioned various times, that, if at all, foreign axis states are happen to be part of the Ostheer, they'll have general unit-names and descriptions. Like Northern Volunteers or even Volunteer Squad.
Thus no Spaniards, Finns, Bulgarians or whatever.
Same problem, different name. What use should those be, without completely ignoring history?!
Btw, you'll have to give them voices... how does "Northern" sound? Like norvergian? Or finnish? ...
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Btw, you'll have to give them voices... how does "Northern" sound? Like norvergian? Or finnish? ...
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Danish, Swedish, Norwegian.
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Well someone proposed awhile ago to use Foreign units kind of like the Red Wave abillity and each time you lose an infantry squad or armor, you get a weaker foreign unit. Maybe if I lose a sniper, I'd get a Finnish one like this guy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) (Ugly, yet amazing, but the unit probalbly would be weaker). If you lose a regular Wehrmacht squad, you get Blue Division Infantry or something. If you lose a Gebirgsjager squad, you get Italian Alpini Infantry. If you lose a medium tank, you get a Hungarian one. If you lose a Tank Hunker or Assault Gun, you get a Romanian one and etc.
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Danish, Swedish, Norwegian.
...didnt get my point... was a rethorical question... referring to the fact that the moment they speak a specific language (somehting difficult to avoid) you also could name the respective country...
Well someone proposed awhile ago to use Foreign units kind of like the Red Wave abillity and each time you lose an infantry squad or armor, you get a weaker foreign unit. Maybe if I lose a sniper, I'd get a Finnish one like this guy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4 (Ugly, yet amazing, but the unit probalbly would be weaker). If you lose a regular Wehrmacht squad, you get Blue Division Infantry or something. If you lose a Gebirgsjager squad, you get Italian Alpini Infantry. If you lose a medium tank, you get a Hungarian one. If you lose a Tank Hunker or Assault Gun, you get a Romanian one and etc.
Ok. Thats a very nice idea I admit. But it would cost a lot of work to model and skin a lot of replacement units just for one single ability... and making this a more general feature would change the ratio of german / foreign troops to a historical inaccurate one...
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Just make them speak english with an accent or german or whatever country you are.
OR just make them say a rumbeling noise.
LIke "eebabababa"
I really dont know or care
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I really dont know or care
This is actually the perfect reason for not saying anything. ;)
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Your right...
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wow
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Danish, Swedish, Norwegian.
...didnt get my point... was a rethorical question... referring to the fact that the moment they speak a specific language (somehting difficult to avoid) you also could name the respective country...
Well someone proposed awhile ago to use Foreign units kind of like the Red Wave abillity and each time you lose an infantry squad or armor, you get a weaker foreign unit. Maybe if I lose a sniper, I'd get a Finnish one like this guy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4 (Ugly, yet amazing, but the unit probalbly would be weaker). If you lose a regular Wehrmacht squad, you get Blue Division Infantry or something. If you lose a Gebirgsjager squad, you get Italian Alpini Infantry. If you lose a medium tank, you get a Hungarian one. If you lose a Tank Hunker or Assault Gun, you get a Romanian one and etc.
Ok. Thats a very nice idea I admit. But it would cost a lot of work to model and skin a lot of replacement units just for one single ability... and making this a more general feature would change the ratio of german / foreign troops to a historical inaccurate one...
Well it's the only somewhat historical and plausible solution. Besides, I think it'll be worth it. The Ostheer should be an Axis, not German faction to make it different to Wehr and PE.
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I agree that Ostheer should be different to PE and Wehr. But this is not about the looks or the background of a unit, this is archieved with differences in gameplay. PE and Wehr are also both german - but completely different.
Including units with no special purpose, just to have foreign units in the game, would probably have a negative impact on gameplay. Who wants useless or non-historic units in his army? Especially when the soviet part perfectly unites gameplay and history? Not me.
If there is a way to find a sensful use of foreign units - perfect. If not, and so far the ideas I've heard are pretty poor, then I hope the Dev's will resist the shiny temptation and focus on the basics, like they mastefully did with SU: Gameplay and History.
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Very well said
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I agree that Ostheer should be different to PE and Wehr. But this is not about the looks or the background of a unit, this is archieved with differences in gameplay. PE and Wehr are also both german - but completely different.
Including units with no special purpose, just to have foreign units in the game, would probably have a negative impact on gameplay. Who wants useless or non-historic units in his army? Especially when the soviet part perfectly unites gameplay and history? Not me.
If there is a way to find a sensful use of foreign units - perfect. If not, and so far the ideas I've heard are pretty poor, then I hope the Dev's will resist the shiny temptation and focus on the basics, like they mastefully did with SU: Gameplay and History.
Because you think half-rifle conscript, and this annoying red banner bearer of strelkys are historically accurate? :o
However I agree, foreign units without clear purpose would be pretty useless...
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I agree that Ostheer should be different to PE and Wehr. But this is not about the looks or the background of a unit, this is archieved with differences in gameplay. PE and Wehr are also both german - but completely different.
Including units with no special purpose, just to have foreign units in the game, would probably have a negative impact on gameplay. Who wants useless or non-historic units in his army? Especially when the soviet part perfectly unites gameplay and history? Not me.
If there is a way to find a sensful use of foreign units - perfect. If not, and so far the ideas I've heard are pretty poor, then I hope the Dev's will resist the shiny temptation and focus on the basics, like they mastefully did with SU: Gameplay and History.
Because you think half-rifle conscript, and this annoying red banner bearer of strelkys are historically accurate? :o
However I agree, foreign units without clear purpose would be pretty useless...
He did say that EF has good balance between gameplay and history, not that is historically accurate. Even CoH isn't.
Cool units + balance + (history/2) = good gameplay...
If you want to add historic accuracy you would use history instead of (history/2), but that gives another result, something like combining hydrochloric acid and aluminium.
And by the way, I agree with your opinion about foreign units ;D.
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I have a solution: An ability, a call-inn, much like the American infantry battlegroup call-inn, where you get random foreign units.
Two variants:
1 - You get a couple of units from a random country (all-hungarian, all-romanian etc.). The different countries have different specializations, like finns give you a few good units, Hungary gives you armored vehicles, and Romania gives you infantry (I don't really know, nor do I care, which country that should give what units). Again, what country you get will be completely random.
2 - You get a battlegroup consisting of units from different nationalities with different specialities. This ability would be the one that is most similar to the american one (And in my option not as cool as the first option). On the other hand would this probably be the easiest for the devs.
The usefulness of such ability would be to get a lot of units very quickly, but they aren't necessarily as good as the German units. You will also have to take a chance on what units you get.
This idea would, in my opinion, be the best solution for including other axis nations into the Ostheer. I know that such an ability would demand a lot of work, but I think the devs can make it.
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Because you think half-rifle conscript, and this annoying red banner bearer of strelkys are historically accurate?
Answer: Cool units + balance + (history/2) = good gameplay...
And Cons & Strelkys are pretty realistic regarding their fighting power. Not like my imaginative albanian elite-mountaineers... with mule-ability to cross ridges... (still worth a thought though.. xD)
You get a couple of units from a random country (all-hungarian, all-romanian etc.). The different countries have different specializations, like finns give you a few good units, Hungary gives you armored vehicles, and Romania gives you infantry (I don't really know, nor do I care, which country that should give what units). Again, what country you get will be completely random.
I actually like this idea very much. Though I wouldn't make it to random, there s enough randomness in the game... Make it a clear Battlegroup of one country... maybe 1 squad + 1 small tank... maybe a middle game call-in... it would be weak but cheap... and like in reality would be used to quickly fill in any gaps in your frontline... best idea I've heard so far.